Important Notice: Numbers

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Aingeal
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Aingeal » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:32 pm

Bridget wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:20 pm
Aishe wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:43 pm
In my opinion, Kiene is suffering due to its bullying and exclusion. There are other factors, of course, but I think that has been the leading downfall for Kiene for a while now and is a big reason why it's numbers are where they are. It's not the name. It's not bad luck.
I played this game for three years before Bridget joined the Te'sorthene Roma. During those early years, every trip to the tavern, my character was insulted and harassed by characters who expressed hatred toward her or ignored her for the mere fact that she lived in Widu. That was off-putting for a newbie who joined this game not knowing a soul. One of the first characters who were kind? Rieron.

Bullying and exclusion; it's not just Kiene. I don't normally get into discussions like this, but this double-standard has been bothering me for years.
Those in widu might always be a sore spot for Fenians, as it was Scarlette's demise that led to Widu being stripped from Fenia to create 'New Kiene' as it is refered to. Aingeal was driven out by events that happened IC, yet even Rieron can attest that IC him and I hate each other, yet I can hold a civil ooc conversation with him if the need arises.

Secfenia has had an unique history in the almost 10 years I've been here. Fenia wasnt even the first VR to be created... first bravia...then fenia... then kiene. The history is what makes this game... and to ignore history is not playing the game imho.

That's why there are options. Aingeal started in bravia...went to fenia... went to spirus in kiene... back to fenia...then to bravia...then back to fenia. All had RP reasons to it. This is what makes the game.

Aingeal may show IC hostilities...but I have never shown ooc hostilities to anyone.

The beauty of a MMORPG...there is always something for everyone...usually.
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Karcier_Aisu
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Karcier_Aisu » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:09 pm

See my character Karcier, has rarely had a problem with people minus one or two. Those he doesn't like he simply talked briefly to, either because I didn't lke their ...way of roleplaying as a player (I don't like people who make themselves to important to begin with, I like people say like Alder who start from nothing and grow but thats my like/dislike) or because IG they were simply out of line for example Bill.

So personal feelings will get hurt, because no one plays the same which is bound to cause friction as some people play, dark/light/good/evil/morally grey etc etc that friction (although its not nice sometimes) is what creates story, without conflict or some challenge a character would be stale and honestly boring. I can state that because in the past year, I've had nothing of interest, no rival ...no reason to partake in politics (because lets face it its pointless.) no desire to go into the taverns (because people sometimes are unpleasant or simply arn't relateable to karciers current state (Which is highly drunk most of the time). To be upset because a dark aligned character interacted negatively with another ailgment is pure silly ness as a player, as a character sure...the hero wouldn't be drinking with the villan.
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balerion
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by balerion » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:17 pm

For the record Scarlette's demise had absolutely nothing to do with Widu being claimed by Bravia.
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Calysta
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Calysta » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:02 pm

Aishe wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:43 pm
[Tsera Fuerte] have had direct and constant control over Kiene and its towns for years now, on all levels. That, alone, sends a negative message to the Keinians that do not belong to the group.
Let me talk about this first since I have been Queen for the past two years. I have always been open to non-Tsera Fuerte players participating in government. Here's a few examples:

kartalkaan - I wrote him to ask how he was enjoying the game. He said he was bored and thinking about quitting. I offered him to be sheriff to give him a reason to stay. I even brought him into VR level of government because of how well he handled his duties. He's not a member of my family, and I didn't even know him at all when offered a place in government after the very first letter he ever sent me stating he was bored.

Mindsword - I told him we had open spots and asked him if he were interested. He said yes. He is not a member of the family and not someone who RPs or sits in tavern much, so I didn't really know him that well when I offered him a chance to participate.

Xis - Same as Mindsword. I wrote him a letter out of the blue asking if he were interested.

Esmaralda - She came in with me listed as her sponsor, but I did not recruit her. She told me that she clicked a link to this game and wanted to make sure someone got the sponsorship. She found my character in the forum and picked mine. I just got lucky. Now a lot of older players would be paranoid if someone randomly picked them as a sponsor because they'd think it was a trick to try to weasel into the group's good graces. People get suspicious when someone randomly picks them as their sponsor. But you know what? I didn't treat her badly. Actually tried to help her when she needed it and even asked her if she wanted to participate in things including government.

There have been other characters that I have offered to join in government or in RP. Some accept; some turn me down.

Fact is, others are allowed to participate. You haven't been in Kiene the past two years to know that.
Aishe wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:43 pm
Alder already stated that he had asked to participate in government more than once and has gone ignored. You have people that WANT (or wanted) to get involved and help, but they have gone ignored or denied. WHY?
I didn't read any of the posts between my first post and Zachrin's decision to open Cork, so I never responded to Alder's post. But let me first say you need to scratch out people and make it only Alder and then scratch out ignored because Alder was never ignored.

Alder was brought onto Council by Queen Victorious. He was rector. Up until that time, Rectors had not been a part of council. Victorious made a spot on council just for Alder. He remained on Council for a long time.

During my reign, Alder wanted to take a break. He took a break then wanted his seat back later. I honestly have never fired anyone from council - not Alder & not anyone else - and I wasn't going to fire anyone - especially if they had been doing a good job - just so Alder could get his old seat back. I told Alder that there was not a spot open on council, but if one came open I would think of him. I then offered him 2 or 3 other options of how he was welcome to help or participate without being on council.

More recently, when Scarlet became monarch following the revolt, she replaced everyone who took the council in the revolt with people who were on council previously because she wanted the rightful council that was there prior to Balerion. That meant Alder ended up replaced.

Those were the only two times that Alder was denied. Alder knew the reason the first time because I told him. That was when I tried to offer him an alternative way to participate because I do care about working with Alder. I don't know if Alder knew the reasoning the second time. Besides those two times, every other time I know of, Alder's help has been accepted.
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Alder
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Alder » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 pm

Three things that spring to mind:

1) There is not a limit on the number of people in the council. You can have councillors on the forum who don't have a role IG. Hell, all the VRs have them. I've never bought that OOC or IC, but I assumed there were IC reasons involved and, considering that the IC interactions of characters is what makes this game cool, didn't ever raise the point OOC. Alder grumbled about it for a bit, then shrugged and dropped it. The ways I was told to 'help the VR' had nothing to do with RP stuff and was to do with fetching resources from other VRs, which is going to do nothing to increase activity. I served as rector for a year, asked to take a break due to some OOC issues I was facing at the time and then wasn't allowed back... admittedly, I haven't chased the role with any real fervour as he was told that if a role came up, he'd be allowed into it...

Now, this is all IC stuff in my opinion, so I don't have any issue with it. However, as this is an OOC discussion, the lines are becoming a bit blurred. Could I ask for clarification if it was for IC or OOC reasons that he was not given a place?

2) Duke, you mentioned something along the lines of fairly dark themes being fit into PG-13 games, but, honestly, I've seen torture, mass murder, discrimination/prejudice, war and a bunch of the darker sides of humanity/other creatures brought up as concepts in this game. Like, this game has gotten pretty dark in the past, imo.

3) Honestly, the Dalakois have never felt like they are as big of a factor within Kiene from the inside as people on the outside must be... although it is a thing that characters outside of Kiene have always stated that all of Kiene is made of those who 'worship the dark elf' or something similar. Honestly, this has always been a pretty fun thing when playing out my character, having him fight against that and try and just support his home, despite the fact that assumptions are made about his alliances for it.

Also... wow, I'm being talked about a LOT here.

Err... hi!
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Calysta
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Calysta » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 pm

Alder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 pm
There is not a limit on the number of people in the council. You can have councillors on the forum who don't have a role IG.
Calysta had a policy of only allowing IG councilors into the council chambers. As mayor, she was fine with stacking the deck in Widu Town Hall, but that was a bit different.
Alder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 pm
The ways I was told to 'help the VR' had nothing to do with RP stuff and was to do with fetching resources from other VRs, which is going to do nothing to increase activity.
If I remember correctly I gave you three options although I don't remember what they were at this point. At the time, we didn't have an issue with activity that I knew of, so it is why perhaps none of my suggestions included helping by increasing activity. Just because I threw a few options out there doesn't mean they are the only options. I was just brainstorming ways you could help. You, of course, are welcome to help increase activity, especially if that is what you are interested in doing.
Alder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 pm
Now, this is all IC stuff in my opinion, so I don't have any issue with it. However, as this is an OOC discussion, the lines are becoming a bit blurred. Could I ask for clarification if it was for IC or OOC reasons that he was not given a place?
In character - not sure I have an ooc reason not to allow you? As far as I know, we've never had issue with each other.
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Alder » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Ok... I was just checking. If this was all in character, then I have no issue with anything, just, with this being an OOC area and people still talking in terms of 'me', I felt it worth clarifying No harm done. ^^
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Calysta
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Calysta » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:21 pm

Agreed. I'd rather you ask.
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Duke_of_Earl » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:39 pm

Alder wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 pm
The ways I was told to 'help the VR' had nothing to do with RP stuff and was to do with fetching resources from other VRs, which is going to do nothing to increase activity.
We can try to make rp out of it. Several of the families and guilds were trade based. Logo's family j'Otun is ...'transvregal? and also operates a guild called Opus IX. Bale at one time had a merchants guild and was working on a family associated guild called Reflections.' Trade has gone under the radar of late or been done largely by mayors, priests, and the trade ministers with a few private ones operating mostly mechanically or via private mail - at best, the occasional tavern talk; but one of the things we can try to spike activity across the board is give another go at trading via an open forum hub. I believe I sometimes spot the old trade guild still somewhere on the moderator's list. Perhaps @Zachrin or @Gretub can restore it to the guilds area as an open forum and folks interested in moving goods between VR's can cluster up in there and see what deals can be arranged IC?
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Re: Important Notice: Numbers

Post by Gretub » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:22 pm

I have no problem restoring old guilds...or having anyone create new ones. There are rules in place for such requests.

Looking through the guilds we currently have... most have gone very long periods with little to no activity. What would be the remedy for that? I do not wish to create/open another forum just to essentially take up space, but I am open to requests.

But that is getting off topic. The topic at hand is activity and player retention, please do not indulge in IC veins here. This is an OOC discussion that Players are discussing. If you wish to start another discussion about another topic please address it in the correct area (s).
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