Release 3.1.004 Preview

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Alder
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:04 pm

Trust me, I've dropped to 0F (or, at least, less than 50F) with nothing on the market and worked my way back up from there more times than I can count. Currently, my character is incredibly wealthy compared to usual as, in getting to level 6, I had to grind workshop experience and that led to me putting lots of things on the market, which were all bought recently, leaving him with a lot more money than he usually ever has.

Admittedly, I do this on purpose since it suits the character I play to never have much in the way of disposable income and to be far more interested in the things he can buy with coin than with the money itself and to achieve this, I've frequently donated most of my earnings away once I reached maximum stats (before then, I'd just blow it on high stat foods to increase in combat ability quicker... or have him be willing to donate money in return for personal classes to boost skills quickly).

But, long story short, I've only a couple of times had the temple buy stuff I had on the market or had the town hall buy stuff I had on the market at lower price than the temple would get for recycling it... and it still clears just fine.

Now, admittedly, my character doesn't use ore at all, which seems to be the big thing you're talking about here, but still, I don't think that this will have too much of an impact on new characters. It's really not very difficult to make money on this game and still have a steady increase of stats (I don't think I ever dropped below 3 per day, not including dexterity, except for a couple of misclicks that occasionally led to only getting 1 or 2). This is coming from a player who took it as his challenge to make his character a powerful fighter rather than an economically impactful one though, so maybe my opinion here isn't the most informed.
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Zachrin
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Zachrin » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:10 pm

I see there was a request for clarification on "Change Temple Sacrifice to use the scraps system like the Recycle option". This is part of a larger arc to sync things more to the scraps system which will in turn be used with Repair Shops. Temples were the last hold out of this system as both personal, town, and Viceregal recycle had already had this change implemented to them. This synced the system closer. I wanted to make sure that we had the systems in place before adding the Repair shops as the last time I made a change with component issues, players were upset when the change came first and then the components became available and this was the way that players voiced they wanted it done.

With this said, the temple sacrifice system also was a quick way to turn a profit on items given that it was giving up to 11% over the minimum price of the item being sacrificed in Freznics. With this system, temples will generate the same amount of scraps as recycling does. In cases where there is not a scrap recipe (i.e. item doesn't contain wood, iron, stone, etc), then the system will give out Freznics up to about 90% of minimum values (depending upon the health of the item). The logic being is that you are getting something guaranteed instead of nothing.

I do not foresee much change for lower level players as the system that was being used was buying stuff more from Towns/Viceroyalties than from individuals as has been mentioned here by some of the players not happy with the change. With this said, let me answer some questions that came up.
Balerion wrote:Is there any chance you'll permit the temples and players to not lose money so long as no Viceregal goods are processed?
The system doesn't flag each item throughout it's entire journey. Once it's crossed hands, the former hands it belonged to are no longer attached. So, there would be no way. No current temple has over 1056 items and one even has no items in it. I'm not even sure there would be a huge demand for a "one last gasp". With that said, if one of the Priests of Bravia, Paz, Widu or Cork which have enough goods where I could see it making any sort of impact is interested, they can contact me and I'll check the logs of what was purchased before this date and give them one shot at doing it. Both Fenia and Imperius Temples both have negligible items and wouldn't be eligible.
Balerion wrote:I won't pretend I'm happy with the VR inventory taking a 20% hit to it's value either, but I'm personally responsible for the temple and don't want it to suddenly hemmorage money because of what seemed a reasonable decision to keep items in the inventory
I don't foresee temples really hemorrhaging either. Even without using sacrifice, temples can and have had positive weeks. All of our temples are currently positive in money, but should things really get "bad", there are other solutions to bring in money. It might mean that temples may have to find another way to get money into their treasury. Whether that be by buying and selling, raising temple box prices/fees, and/or finding other ways to supplement their income. A temple donation drive? At worse, I might even be convinced if some of those ideas were to fail to add in some money coming in for rewards for doing masses. Temples do have some money that comes in for them with deposit boxes, Patron, donations, etc. With this said, I'll review the temple situation in the months to come.

Nor do I think that with the amount of resources that every VR has that this change will impact the health of VR's. I'm sure I don't have to point out how much gold there is in the game that can be converted either... There's so much of that hasn't been converted that it keeps driving the price of gold converted lower and lower.
Duke_of_earl wrote:that stuff FeniaVR was recently praised for in terms of giving out WXYZ benefits to it's citizens; was funded by the liquidation of VR ore resources; @mutual profit to all parties. I'm really not sure how we will maintain social service programs now.
If someone is trying to tell you that they can't do the social service programs now, they are lying to you. Without going into details, there is plenty of money still left and that's even before you talk about the gold conversion system that VR's haven't really been using. I'm going to purposefully use an old number of gold to give you an idea of how rich the VR's are... 275k+ pieces of gold that existed on January 1st, 2018 via all different sources would be worth more than 976k Freznics. I'll give you a hint... that number has gone up in the past year by a good amount. So, if someone is saying that they can't do social services... then someone is purposefully misinforming you. I won't specifically tell anyone what the total value of any VR's money + gold is for fairness.
Alder wrote:I know that it is 'possible' to amass great wealth in this game,
There is a lot of different ways to make money and the temple sacrifice wasn't even one that I considered as a way for players to make money. Every field and workshop can make good money even before factoring in other ways which I will not give away all the methods that I specifically have noticed over the years.
Duke_of_earl wrote:At the end of the day, if we are going to loose this ability to liquidate mineral wealth at the institutional level
And yet, the convert gold feature sits with dust on it. ;) Perhaps a better review of liquidating of gold wealth needs to be done.
Alder wrote:I've felt for a while that there is too much money floating around in Secfenia
I completely agree. The top 25 players in Secfenia have more than 15k each in money not including value of goods. So, I must admit I'm not exactly afraid of any institution going poor any time soon.

In short, I don't think this will really impact most players, towns, or Viceroyalties. It does mean the temple may have to find alternative programs and they can't be used to funnel goods around to create a profit on items unnaturally. I don't see any reason why purchasing of new player goods has to stop by any town as they have the resources to be able to hold onto things longer if need be or even trade. I'm happy to review over the situation after getting more data with it gone to see if any changes need to be made.
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Nocturne
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Nocturne » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:36 pm

Woo, I'm apparently top 25. I suppose my thoughts on this are reserved until the repair shops and things come out to see how balance plays into it. I lost 20% of value as well I suppose, but then, I also didn't have need for that 20%, so.....there's that?
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Alder
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:44 pm

Nocturne wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:36 pm
Woo, I'm apparently top 25. I suppose my thoughts on this are reserved until the repair shops and things come out to see how balance plays into it. I lost 20% of value as well I suppose, but then, I also didn't have need for that 20%, so.....there's that?
This...

Anybody with that much money has no use for it.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Nocturne » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:57 pm

Mainly because @Alder didn't want to sell his shinies :P
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:04 pm

You're not getting my daggers, damn it :P
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Nocturne » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:08 pm

But I'd throw you the 15k!
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by balerion » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:10 pm

@Zachrin I requested the Imperian temple remove it's items after them being discussed in this thread. The temple isn't without items, they are in safekeeping.
Last edited by balerion on Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Duke_of_Earl » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:15 pm

Zachrin wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:10 pm
Duke_of_earl wrote:that stuff FeniaVR was recently praised for in terms of giving out WXYZ benefits to it's citizens; was funded by the liquidation of VR ore resources; @mutual profit to all parties. I'm really not sure how we will maintain social service programs now.
If someone is trying to tell you that they can't do the social service programs now, they are lying to you. Without going into details, there is plenty of money still left and that's even before you talk about the gold conversion system that VR's haven't really been using. I'm going to purposefully use an old number of gold to give you an idea of how rich the VR's are... 275k+ pieces of gold that existed on January 1st, 2018 via all different sources would be worth more than 976k Freznics. I'll give you a hint... that number has gone up in the past year by a good amount. So, if someone is saying that they can't do social services... then someone is purposefully misinforming you. I won't specifically tell anyone what the total value of any VR's money + gold is for fairness.
That was me jumping to that conclusion myself; I've experimented with the system a bit since that post and discussed with Zuan in forum the situation. atm; i'm not worried about the ship sinking anymore; my chief concern was if this change was a step towards another in which iron and stone would recycle from scraps rather than cash which only make stone and iron again. Gold is good as is, but ores in large amounts don't necessarily have a use anymore other than conversion into cash. Perhaps if we could add another level to Temples and TH''s or perhaps to construct the ports even in an npc town, there can be additional outlets for spending stone and iron; otherwise it just sits there or is used for Freznics. The current system makes TH use a bit harder to deal with, but I am figuring it out. It shouldn't be too big of a deal as Alder has said too.
Duke_of_earl wrote:At the end of the day, if we are going to loose this ability to liquidate mineral wealth at the institutional level
And yet, the convert gold feature sits with dust on it. ;) Perhaps a better review of liquidating of gold wealth needs to be done.
Honestly, I think we'd purposefully switched from the gold system to the stone&iron mineral system because it was more efficient than gold which was less profitable to do. Gold has always been a 2F item vs. 5F. Minting was fixed recently to be in excess of that, but minting only helps the VR itself. The ores could be passed through TH's to the market who could then take a 0.50F cut. Gold also has uses as is for opulence purposes and it's been debated whether or not we should invest our gold in various ways as to maximize opulence vs simply cashing it out; particulary since there was more than enough cash coming in from the spare minerals system to not have to use our gold for cash.
Alder wrote:I've felt for a while that there is too much money floating around in Secfenia
I completely agree. The top 25 players in Secfenia have more than 15k each in money not including value of goods. So, I must admit I'm not exactly afraid of any institution going poor any time soon.[/quote]
nods.

In short, I don't think this will really impact most players, towns, or Viceroyalties.
I don't know how unused this function was in other towns, but in Fenia I made a point of buying all items posted within the recycling range.
With item values now less than the min. value, those items are going to stack up on the market at 2F&5F or folks will have to arrange to sell 1 item at twice the recycle price and donate one item. I suppose it's not too big a loss, but -shrug.

It does mean the temple may have to find alternative programs and they can't be used to funnel goods around to create a profit on items unnaturally.
Well, they are supernatural, no? ^:P and it was a small profit, but useful; no worries.

Edit: RE Inventory. We also have some items that are not meant for recycling and are kept on the open market rather than in the inventory; there may also be some in the Diocese fair; eg mine has 400 eggs stored there; 3F ones not 2F ones, that are meant for normal market release as are needed.
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Zachrin
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Zachrin » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:19 pm

balerion wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:10 pm
@Zachrin I requested the Imperian temple remove it's items after them being discussed in this thread. The temple isn't without items, they are in safekeeping.
So, you requested that they remove items when you were requesting that a last gasp be given? Okay... They can contact me with the list of items that they had and when it was removed and ensure that they have them again. I'll check the logs and go from there.
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