Release 3.1.004 Preview

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balerion
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by balerion » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:31 pm

It hardly makes sense to have items in the temple waiting to be stolen if someone decides to loot it. Furthermore I've no idea when you might respond or how.

So they should return everything to the temple and send you a list? Will you ensure it's safety? I'm traveling attempting to sell things to get their value out of them and can't defend it from abroad.
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Zachrin
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Zachrin » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:48 pm

balerion wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:31 pm
It hardly makes sense to have items in the temple waiting to be stolen if someone decides to loot it. Furthermore I've no idea when you might respond or how.

So they should return everything to the temple and send you a list? Will you ensure it's safety? I'm traveling attempting to sell things to get their value out of them and can't defend it from abroad.
I highly doubt that the current priests would really loot it at this point. If I'm not mistaken, the last person to have besieged a Temple (besides my tests of it) was you... years ago. So, unless you are going to do it, I doubt others will all of a sudden jump to do it. With all of this said, please have the Priest send me a list of the items that they had and when it was removed. They must still have those items in their possession (whether in the temple or other areas). I will then check the logs and go from there. This was we can make sure everything goes smoothly. Thank you for your cooperation.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by marleen » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 pm

I just wanted to talk about a couple broader issues, and I think recycling hits part of it.

The maximum level is level 6, and after that there is simply nothing to do but amass wealth. If top 10% have over 15K f stored up, I think that's a pretty good indicator of that.

This game is reliant on economy, and it is very old so there are a lot of players who have reached the maximum level, and aside from that don't really do much from what I can tell. You can get involved in politics, or you can try to find creative ... or eccentric ... ways to spend your hard-earned economical position. But aside from that and making sure that your character doesn't perrish, there really isn't anything to do. And I would say that if the character has reached level 6, they probably are goal- oriented. I think that it's important to understand the ratio of players who are max level or near max level, versus the players who are growing and consuming, versus the players who are simply status quo - just logging in to make sure their character doesn't die. A couple years ago, I feel like they were more new players and the market gears turned a little better, but I feel like the ratio of new players to matured players is growing wider. While the influx of new players may stay the same, I feel like the maturity of existing players is always growing. Only a admin would be able to pull those kinds of stats.

I recently did a tour of all of the active towns, and I am seeing a very large amount of dumping in just about every town. I don't want to be prejudiced, but I have not stayed in a town long enough to be sure of this observation, but I feel that fenia is a good of markets stagnation. Nobody is buying anything, and nothing is really being sold. All of the fields are present, all of the craft workshops are presents, and just about everything there is, is all ready present. There are a few needs that could still be met, but they are quite small, and will not have much of an impact on the overall situation.

I think that the whole issue of recycling, and dumping, and players with very little else to accomplish are all part of the same ball of yarn. I think that all of the markets in this game are stagnating because maybe a quarter to a half of the population is no longer participating in the economy oh, there is no reason to, and what they produce will not be sold anyways.

Remember that there are many players who have hundreds upon hundreds of items stocked up, out of generosity and concern for the economical Market. I am not sure about the status quo players, that could go either way - to run their fields, or not run them, certainly they are not selling.

I think that we are coming into a place where there needs to be a way for the economy to still turn an excess items to be useful, producers to produce again, and even the level 6s to have use for items on the market.

The way I see it, we have a couple of options.

- we can make level 7 so that players can progress again, but we will just suffer the same issue later, and this will just be another form of power creep. I am not sure what features players even want for new levels.

- But, what if there is no level cap, and players can progress as high as they want to, just for the bragging rights of what level they are. In my head I envisioned this so that each new level has an increasing stat, f, and education requirement. But I'm not sure if super high stats are going to be a form of power creep and a problem on the game. For example, I saw that a town was recently raided by a certain militia and I would not want a situation where an individual player can take over an entire town... or do we?

- another idea is that there can be a sink for these items as well as individual players f to go into that provides some form of benefit for each Town individually. That was once recycling. For example, maybe this feature is a gluttonous volcano God that constantly has to be fed items and f in return provides more time for players who are status quo between logins. This is not a very good example of a benefit though as I don't see individual players who are active participating in it.

- Another idea is that peasants simply buy more stuff, but I will simply lead to Market inflation as players have no more need for goods then they do right now, but they will be selling a lot more. I am not keen on this idea.

- I have also thought about giving Town Halls the ability to take item listings off of the market without buying them. But part of me wonders if this will simply results in favoritism, official dealers, and an economical fake bubble like the diamond industry. But also Town Halls have this ability already by simply purchasing the item, and many towns choose not to do this of their own accord. So I am not sure that this helps anything at all



Anywho, it seems like the original discussion had died but I feel like there is still a bigger problem that we can discuss, and maybe we can find a solution that will work for everyone

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Rannek
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Rannek » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:54 pm

marleen wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 pm
For example, I saw that a town was recently raided by a certain militia and I would not want a situation where an individual player can take over an entire town... or do we?
Imma just say that this is already the case and has happened many times.

As for everything else: I agree, I'm just not smart enough to really be of much help there.
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Alder
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:09 pm

I'd be against the idea of an infinite cap... there is a simple reason for this.

As I have stated many times, I like this game because of its system for dealing with godmodding and people who make a character who is basically a god with more power than anybody else around for some power trip. It has the IG side of things to keep everything fair. The downside to this system is that it means that a new player can't make a character who is not a god like entity who destroys the power scale all together, but instead is a medium to high level character on this scale.

However, as the character grows, they can begin to become more and more influential. For example, I used to be very rigorous with increasing skills and stats every day and generally enjoyed the fact that Alder was slowly becoming more of a force to be reckoned with. If we removed the caps, then new characters joining would not be able to have that as the most powerful characters would just be steadily increasing further and further away from them.

I remember it being one hell of an achievement for Alder when he first fought a character who had been a legend when I first joined and he was able to land a hit. I remember the first time he then beat a character who had been a level 4 (which was the highest at the time) when he was level 0. This is a whole area of development that other characters wouldn't be able to have if we removed the caps. Sure, they'd get the other side of character power growth which was really fun for me, which was Alder pitting himself against others who were at one time of similar strength to himself (of which some kept up and some, he is now much more powerful than), but they wouldn't ever be able to 'catch up'.

Hell, even just being able to view Alder as being maybe half as strong as X character meant that he was able to interact with scenes involving them (other than just casual conversation) and at least hold his own... remove the caps and becoming even a significant fraction of an older player in terms of strength becomes a nearly insurmountable task.

Ok, I've said more than I meant to. That's... more or less my thoughts on caps.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Amaryllis » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:45 am

A good deal of level 6's still partake in making goods or study and teach. I think it is a tad unfair to state that they are stagnant in their game play, as there are legend skills to learn as well as other skills they may like to learn. I also have not heard complaint about the caps yet...
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balerion
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by balerion » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:25 am

A number of players have bluntly stated a number of times the end game is devoid of goals. It isn't the end of the world, but I've made over 10,000f with nothing to spend it on other than the occasional gem.

I also don't know if level 7 would help, but I don't think the statement is unfair. I've nothing to spend my money on, my fields lay fallow for I've no need to bother to produce anything. I do idle raw resource collection just to pass the time.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:16 am

Ok, so, personally, I don't feel that the 'endgame' needs goals in this game. Like, sure, it's nice, but this is a rpg first and foremost... it is not a resource management game (or, at least, to me it is not). Having a powerful character was never a prerequisite for having fun in this game, neither was feeling like I was moving further towards any goal other than those Alder had in an rp context.

With that said, there have been many suggestions for how to create goals and resource drains without just raising caps or introducing new items, which are just a way to sink a particular amount of resources into once.

I'm talking about anything that people have talked about that would be only temporary... Zuan's relic idea, since the relics would not stay in the inventory for long, or the ideas about Yvyrm and Xanthereel nests or NPC bandits. Ideas for items that can only be used once and confer a temporary benefit (potions that aren't to do with patronage, for example that might give faith points or a temporary boost to stats or make the character count as 2 characters when revolting for a day or something). Poison is currently the only mechanic we have in the game that actually drains resources for a temporary benefit later.
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balerion
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by balerion » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:25 am

When you no longer even have to pay money for foods and it just starts piling up in heaps with nothing to buy the dynamic changes quite a bit. The job I took yesterday will feed me for an entire week.
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waerth
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by waerth » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:42 am

Alder's suggestion of having NPC bandits and even bands of bandits roam the VR is actually a good idea for the militairy minded. It could add a sense of Dungeons and Dragons. The stronger and bigger groups would roam in the many VR's currently not active. Maybe sometimes even block nodes in existing realms.

I would also suggest that people could recruit and pay peasants for their armies. They would have to equip them though with weapons at least. Another Freznic sink. Certain limits should be attached to the amount of peasants. Also towns and VR could hire peasants in defence and equip them.

It would also open role play options with rulers sanctioning expeditions against these bandits.

With the option to repair items I feel that that destroys the market for some part. I feel it should be nerved. Items can't be endlessly repaired. The cost for repairing should be exponential.

Spice Road
We have an ocean and boats. Why not open some distant destinations with certain demands for goods in exchange for freznics or maybe even exotic currencies. And they could be selling items we can't make ourselves. Maybe even a land route. We have horses now, we could even trade for camels. The land route should start from the far end of the realms.

Imaging a caravan bringing back spices, ivory, incense for the temples etc. On these trade expeditions people could be robbed and attacked too. This could be a Freznic sink and add some movement to the markets.

Imaging the stories to be told.

Personal Pet Pieve
I know it was discussed before and the game developer is against it I believe. But I feel people should be able to open up cities and VR themselves. This could by accomplished by allowing peasants more tasks. Out of peasants could grow townsfolk whom could be rendered an ID in the game database and they could be almost like a real character giving them the option to keep the money they earn and spend it on what they need in towns.

Etc etc etc

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