Market law

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Varann

Re: Market law

Post by Varann »

thank you for making it clear that anyone can buy as much as they like from balerion but as funny as your comment is it's not really helping matters
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Wyllow
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Re: Market law

Post by Wyllow »

Oh me oh my! Is... is it election time??? For so long we have not even had a debate! So glad to see people engaging again...

Now, to the matter at hand... What was changed? Erm, as can be seen by my question, that obviously the populus .. current, that is... was not even notified, whether or not it was done up 18 months ago OR today.. That little bit of kindness would have been quite nice.

I will also say... from experience, that a poll, should never be a deciding factor in whether or not a law should be implemented. If you want the peoples involvement, you need to actually send them the information so that they can be informed when making their decision, with the before law, and the proposed law. Better yet, the current council should be first and foremost the ones to discuss, propose to the public, then vote on it, before any laws are changed, as that is the point of having a council.

I think the current mayor had the best interest at heart, however, there is such thing as protecting their voters from outsiders dumping on our markets. That said, no outsiders should have any -say- in what happens with our market. Outsiders should have to contact the mayor, as is done with most trades, so that the market is not manipulated. When a law is debated, a law written up, but a law NOT submitted, it is not a law, for you can not put a law through that was not YOUR making, or your councils, making.

Your citizens are the ones you protect if you have market laws. They are your voters too.
Myrth

Re: Market law

Post by Myrth »

Since this law is now up for a public poll in Bravia, I am going to post my thoughts about it here on the public side of the forums.

Section IV: Market Manipulation

1. Any items which are sold at a higher price than what they were bought for may be charged with Market Manipulation.Punishment for violating this law may be up to twice the total amount of the offending market goods and up to 3 days in jail. Please note: Mayors conducting official town or viceregal business are exceptions. Another exception would be contracts made with the viceroyalty or mayor prior to the sell.


Unlike the law in Paz, our statute does not state that buying low and selling high on the same market is what is forbidden. Rather, it does not specify any market. Thus, if you buy low in another town and sell higher in Bravia, you have technically committed a crime. Compare this to Paz's much simpler and clearer statute on the same issue.

What this statute means is that when I go to Staunchville and buy wood on the market for 5fs, and I return to Bravia to sell it at a profit, I am technically in violation of this law and subject to prosecution and jail. There is no applicable exception for me as a citizen doing this to support my university studies. Maybe the current mayor won't go after me for a "technicality" but another might. Vague laws, laws that someone has to explain "what we really meant" are bad laws, particularly where the plain meaning of what is written is contrary to "what we really meant."

I am sure that whoever drafted this meant well. But as the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This law plainly, on its face, criminalizes behavior that is not only innocent, but is good for Bravia.

Until this law is repealed, I will take my wood elsewhere to sell it. Does that make for a good law? Does that make Bravia more secure? No, it makes Bravia poorer as anyone who reads this law will likely have the same reaction.

2. The stability of the town market is helped by keeping the prices of goods stable. It is prohibited from selling any one item twice as high as the current town hall buying list. Which can be found in the town hall of Bravia City.


Where someone really, really wants a house, and they ask me to go harvest wood for their house, willing to pay a princely sum, I do so. Now, I would be in violation of the law. I am told that I can get an exception if I get advance permission from the mayor. But, again, that exception is not here in this statute.

Guess what? I will ask my customer to meet me in another city to complete the contract. Again, Bravia loses out.


3. The goods of our market are there for all our citizens to be able to take some of. In that case, it is prohibited to purchase over 20 items at once unless it is an agreement made by the seller or by council business.


When someone is preparing for an extended trip, a trip that will last 2 to 3 weeks, they buy food in bulk. It is not possible to buy stat foods in places like Staunchville. Thus, one must stock up prior to leaving. Now, once again, I will be a criminal for doing that which I must do in order to go on a wood gathering mission. Either I go on shorter trips, buy my food elsewhere than Bravia, or I face possible criminal prosecution under the letter of this law.

Honestly, when I sell 100+ of an item, I don't care if one person or a dozen buys it. I just want it sold. What do I care if the creature who needs 96 wood to build their house buys it?

If we are going to place a limit, however, why make it an arbitrary number like 20? Perhaps limit volume purchases to no more than half the available items of one type, unless it is the only item of that type remaining, in which case it is permissible to buy the sole item of a type on the market.

4. It is the sellers responsibility to notify the town council or the mayor if they wish to press charges on someone they feel is manipulating the market. At this time it will be brought upon and voted on by town council whether to take to the public prosecutor to file charges.

FEEL? What does someone's FEELING have to do with criminal law, for goddess's sake? If you have proof of a crime, you may bring it to the mayor or town council for review and possible referral for prosecution.

This ill-advised law needs to be repealed. If we have terrible problems with market manipulation, we could replace it. I haven't seen terrible market manipulation by our residents, but maybe it has been a problem historically that people want to have addressed. If so, we might want a revised law to replace this one. But as written it is the worst in Secfenia of its type. It (probably unintentionally) makes criminal, actions that are not harmful to our town. I am sure it was well-intended. I am also sure it is a disaster.

Until this law is repealed or replaced, I will be selling wood and doing bulk purchases in other communities.
Last edited by Myrth on Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wyllow
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Re: Market law

Post by Wyllow »

Normal market laws are for people dumping cheap goods on our market. Not for or against their own citizens. Those are the people that we (if it is decided) should be protected from. As a traveler and a trader, it is normal protocol to not take (buy as a trader from the market that is not your home town) MORE than half of one item (the same item) on the market. In all honesty, I could never understand why that was. When I sell items, it does not bother me if someone cleans the items out on the market that I have for sale. (in my home town) If you do not want it sold, don't put it up for sale.

Now when it comes from people outside placing large quantities of items on our market that we already have, that is the only issue I have. Markets should be fairly free for trade, with a small restriction on those that come in and dump cheap goods on our markets.
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balerion
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Re: Market law

Post by balerion »

Aishe Sanchari, if you are going to make a fuss I demand that you also take the time to show off the wonderful gems that I crafted for your wife to give you. It's only fair. How will people know that I make the absolute best if you squabble without showing off the goods? Squabble and do a nice display my love, let them see my workmanship. Goodness knows you haven't flaunted anything for too long, give em a good twirl.

Balerion looks at the others still a bit surprised at the splash his small declaration had made.

Don't those gems go wonderfully with Aishe's darling eyes, surely you could use a circlet, ring, or even gemmed broadsword of your own for display? Dragon crafted gems are guaranteed to last longer than you. Balerion smiles wide showing just a few too many razor sharp teeth.
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Aishe
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Location: OOC: On RL maternity leave. In retreat IG, checking forums occasionally. Available on discord.

Re: Market law

Post by Aishe »

Oh, needn't worry, my dearest - I never take them off! How could I? They are far too perfect because you are just that good. It is true, after getting dragon crafting gems, I will never be able to return to ordinary craftsmanship! You and my wife have spoiled me. Speaking of, I've got some gems for you if you get your tail over to Bravia for a visit. I know how you love your uncut gems.
Aishe Ehsan Sanchari-Kuhlash | Married to Akos | Mother of Dynasties | Mum of 16
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Rieron
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Re: Market law

Post by Rieron »

Rieron had heard of the commotion going on in the public streets of Bravia City and decided to take a brief break to watch the show. He brought popcorn and just laughed hard. "Khaine... This is rich.."
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~Mated to Scarlet~ |Father to Ryker, Narezza, and Aeron| Master Sorcerer, Sargent, and Priest of Cork ~Drachau of Tsera Fuerte~ "Pain is erased when inflicted upon others."
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Wyllow
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Re: Market law

Post by Wyllow »

Looking up, she believes she hears a smirk on the wind...

Aww, lookit' that.. I wondered how long it would take for him and his ilk to come sniffing around. Anything that undermines Bravia...

She addresses the Mayor directly. Lady Mayor, I implore you to reverse what you have done with our laws. This is exactly what was expected. Items being put on our market from outsiders that do not belong here, that we already have on our market. She glanced the way of the wretched smell the popcorn was wafting her way and nearly lost her stomach.. I always give a benefit of the doubt, but I am losing faith fast.

She thought then of times past, and how some things were done out of spite, even still. It amazed her that the popcorn holder still had an axe to grind.. but well, that was his style. Turning away from the event, she decided that her words were all she had. She had come to Bravia for peace and until now, she had had that.

Before she got too far away, she addressed the Dragon. Oh and Uncle? There are MANY things on our market that we are sorely in need of... I will for certain be sending you a list. I will be darned if that thing and his family will profit, considering the damage they had done here once... She winked and gave a smirk of her own, her stomach finally settled. Whether or not she did so may be two different things.
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Rieron
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Re: Market law

Post by Rieron »

He hears a voice all too familiar, "If it isn't the baking juggernaut of Bravia City who only talks publicly when her monopoly is disturbed.."

He chuckled genuinely amused and now rather intrigued, "Listen you dumb tramp.. The damage your 'uncle'.." He had to pause because that really made him laugh. The way that family put together their relationship was like a child being handed a crayon and told to paint the exact copy of the Mona Lisa. It just didn't make sense. "The damage your 'dragon' did was actually quite bad. He not only destroyed the castle but he also kicked out all of the counselors from it and installed himself as the Viceroy.."

Rieron ate more of the popcorn, "Maybe it is time I should come around..."
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~Mated to Scarlet~ |Father to Ryker, Narezza, and Aeron| Master Sorcerer, Sargent, and Priest of Cork ~Drachau of Tsera Fuerte~ "Pain is erased when inflicted upon others."
Redkipp

Re: Market law

Post by Redkipp »

Goblins have long noses, both literally and figuratively. Humans are also known for their curiosity. Add a fact of Redkipp being a member of town militia to the mix, and you'll get just enough to outweigh fear. With just a sharp stone affixed to a pole, half-goblin hurried to the place of heated debate (OOC : which is apparently ended long ago (: ).
— What's happening here? — he asked, holding his i improvised spear at the ready — I smell the winds of war, but luckily hear no sound of iron clashing yet.
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