**Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

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Myrth

Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Myrth »

-snip-

Indeed.

Ophelia, had she actually wanted to commit treason, would have flipped Bravia City independent and then turned it to another VR. Instead, she began running it like an appropriate Bravia's mayor. What she did was NOT treason and did not deserve the over the top response from the VR. But they were hellbent on vengeance, consequences aside. She saved Bravia City from an historically incompetent politician, but the powers-that-be treated her like the greatest threat that ever befell Bravia City.

Had the powers-that-be in Bravia VR not done what they did in response, I am quite sure that she would not have fled Bravia to save her life. But attacking her at the same time:

1) by a duel to the death
2) AND an army attack
3) AND switching prosecutors to someone who, at a minimum, wanted to be able to prosecute Ophelia for underselling her (the new prosecutor) on the market
4) AND charging her with treason ...

the outcome is that Bravia gave Ophelia no choice but to flee for her life.

I am surprised that I would ever say this, but thank you, Rieron! Much was made of Rieron's attack. But he did NOT attack town hall, which he could have. Instead he attacked the army that had attacked Ophelia. And, he aided her escape from the mob. He could have single-handedly taken Bravia's town hall. He could have single-handedly flipped it, taken it over. But he didn't. He just saved Ophelia and helped her. I was surprised by that, pleasantly. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

There is a saying where I am from, that what a creature does comes back on them threefold. Bravia drove off one of its most dedicated citizens this week, one of its most powerful. Why? It seems the letter of the law means more than actual justice. And so they drove off one who, in another time, might have been there to defend the city, the VR. So much for far thinking military defense.

What really makes me shake my head, is that in private, at least one Bravian involved in this gross over-reaction has previously tried to talk ME into joining a rebellion against the Bravia VR. The complete hypocrisy of that makes me ill. And, it disappoints me, deeply, heartbreakingly.

And so, I head out, looking for whatever I may find. I don't wish Bravia ill, but Karma does have a way of dealing out justice in the end. I will watch for Karmic justice, likely from afar.

Fare thee well.
Myrth

Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Myrth »

Oh my, I would love to have time to reply to all of this, but briefly due to time constraints:
Duke_of_Earl wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:52 am
Has she specifically been charges with treason, or charged with specific actions, but not treason?
There are two charges. One is treason (because that seems to be the way of law in Bravia, over-reaching and over-the-top).

I dare say this will not result in world war. After all, Bravia just lost one of its greatest warriors due to its over-the-top reaction. Bravia is not in any position to go about invading other lands at this point, so you needn't worry about that.

Aishe ran unopposed and for sure got her own vote. There was no landslide voice of the people here. Few voted. Was that a legal vote? Yes. Is democracy strong in Bravia? No.

Could Ophelia's action support some legal action against her? Absolutely. Was the action taken by the VR measured and appropriate? No. Was it treason? No.

Concerning the tactic of luring her in with a duel to the death challenge to end the standoff, and then backing Nocturne up with an army, all I can say is that this tactic reflects on the honor and integrity of those involved, and history will judge those actions.

As to my thanking Rieron for saving Ophelia, I am aware that he also has a darker reputation. That is why I indicated surprise. But I would also note the typical duality in most creatures, an element of light, and an element of dark. The balance of these sides of our nature varies from creature to creature. But few in my experience are wholly dark or wholly light. Rieron exhibited an element of light in this action, in addition to any dark you note, and he refrained from the dark action I anticipated.

The light in me honors the light in you, my friend.
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Katie
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Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Katie »

Here are the facts as I know it as to what occurred and this is not to dispute anyone, but to say specifically I am standing by this with any and all creatures...

1) Aishe moved back here this past Winter and thought Ophelia (who was mayor) was abusing power because she was holding a number of town positions. Yes, it looked bad, but I do not believe Ophelia was doing that and have told Aishe this.
2) Aishe ran for mayor during the Winter and Ophelia ran against her . Ophelia used her mayoral position to send out letters requesting for people to vote for her. Ophelia won.
3) Nocturne became mayor later and Aishe seemingly died, but dying is not illegal. Nocturne remained mayor for quite some time. How many months, I have lost track, but would guess several at minimum.
4) Nocturne asked me to become mayor recently and life has truly been very busy for me. I asked Aishe who wanted the job if she were still interested in it. She seemed very excited so I told her I would talk to Nocturne. He had just become mayor again when I said something to him a out her becoming possible mayor. He didn't seem to have any problem with it if she knew the market value of goods, etc... I am sure she knew that.
5) Aishe ran for mayor unopposed and received 100% of the vote and at least I voted for her. There were most likely others who voted for her too.
6) The mayoral race was held legally without any problems, incidences or issues.
7) Aishe did not die, etc while she was mayor; she was in the office only 24 to 48 hours max when...
8) according to Ophelia, she walked in becoming proactive and revolted against Aishe because Aishe had no militia jobs up.


From there things went down hill and since I am not on council, I am not in the know pertaining to council and council decisions. I did ask Ophelia to please vacate her mayoral post right prior to the Dark Rose Army entering town hall. (I did not want her to be killed.) Low and behold, Rieron came from Cork Kiene with his army attacking a Bravia Army as the Dark Rose Army was entering the town hall. Kiene should distance itself from him and his behavior or consider siding with him against Bravia, but to sit on the fence is unacceptable of the Kiene government.

I wish Ophelia the very best and I wish the same for Aishe, but Aishe was killed only by the Rieron army within the past week.

I believe both of these ladies would like each other under different circumstances. They are lovely ladies and it is too bad and quite sad.
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Nocturne

Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Nocturne »

Hmm, it seems that most here seem to think that these things were guaranteed, that the Viceroyalty had a 'death wish' for Ophelia. I challenged her to a duel to the death - which we discussed, and she accepted the terms - to hopefully help resolve some of the chaos going on. I am most curious how some of these events seem to be conjured from thin air among people. But carry on, such judgements often end up being little more than egg on the face later on when truth comes to light that you aren't privy to at the moment.

snip
Karcier_Aisu

Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Karcier_Aisu »

Karcier stumbled in, bottle of rum in hand. He frowned slightly at the gathering of people, his family and the other lot . "My goodness *hiicups*why do you people always fret on detail...no one cares what you think...*hiccups* nor will anyone care about the effort you put into your well written words after a month has passed ... *hicups*" He sways a bit before going on. "Why don't you...put as much effort as you do in these long *hiccups* damned detailed speech..and put it into protecting your town halls and making sure you have people that don't fall asleep on the job that often... " he frowns eyeing them all, making a shooing motion with his bottle of rum, which he then stops to take a swig from. "Anddddd on another note...you should allllll be thanking Ophelia and Rieron...know why...cos they just injected some reason into what would of otherwise been a boring dull standard day...we thrive in challenge..and stagnate in peace...but hey...I know I'll be ignored...its why I'm drunk..its why I don't like *hiccups* most of you anymore...to centred on drama...wanting to sound self righteous."

He begins making his way to the door and waves his bottle of rum. "Stuff happens...deal with it."
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Wyllow
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Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Wyllow »

3) AND switching prosecutors to someone who, at a minimum, wanted to be able to prosecute Ophelia for underselling her (the new prosecutor) on the market

She heard Myrth and had to let out a chuckle, it was clear that the creature had much that was based on delusion, happening. My friend, She addressed Myrth. I am not sure where you came up with my having an axe to grind with Ophelia, but I must ask why are you creating something .. and screaming it like a banshee .. that does not exist? Do you often feel that one that does not agree with others should hunt them down and carry grudges? I am sorry, but we all have more important things to do than hold on to grudges for a lifetime. Or better yet, we leave that up to Rieron, since that is his cup of tea. She nodded with a wink. It was a low shot, and she knew it. Her wolfish grin only enhanced it as such.

My beliefs are that mayors undercutting citizens shouldn't happen, that applies to all Mayors. I don't believe in having goods so low that the economy is gets nastily stagnant. That is my opinion, and mine alone. I said the same to Nocturn, which.. to my knowledge he didn't take as offensive, he took it as it was.. Not an attack. Will you defend him against me too? And make it sound I am out to get him? Why do you take it as to only mean Ophelia, is beyond me. She chuckled once more at the ridiculousness, then calmed, and cleared her throat before speaking once more. You're thanking Rieron, speaks something strange though, the same as your confidence in him does. If there is one thing I have observed, it is that Rieron does nothing without planning. That means he didn't rush to her aid like you would believe him to have. One doesn't know these kind of things though, unless one studies others. Very sorry you feel that anyone is above the law though, as that seems to be what you are really upset over. As to my job, I merely am doing a job I was tasked with, which I refused when was asked. You should also note that I am not the Judge either, and it all comes down to what the Judge decides.

She was thoughtful for a moment. I am curious as to this Justice that you also mention. What Justice was being served by revolting a town unlawfully? Was there some law that was being broken by the ones that voted for the rightful mayor? Please, do explain. I am sad that you seem to be upset about the laws we do have, and the fact that it is causing you to depart Bravia. A better way, in my opinion, would be to try to change the laws.
Letting out a final sigh, she waited for a bit to see if she would get a response from Myrth, as she had thought they were friendly with one another.
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Wyllow
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Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Wyllow »

Katie wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:21 pm Redkipp is in the town militia, but I hope it is not considered a crime. Tomorrow will be different story.
Agreed. I had reported as such and did ask for leniency when it came to him, as the notice did go out late.
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Duke_of_Earl
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Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Duke_of_Earl »

Wyllow wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:36 pmMy beliefs are that mayors undercutting citizens shouldn't happen, that applies to all Mayors. I don't believe in having goods so low that the economy is gets nastily stagnant.
I have had similar conversations with Aingeal who favors a freer market over the kind of regulation I have done in Fenia city. I prefer to set a pricing equation of 1F per hour (at the shop level 1 time without a steward) + cost of materials +~10% markup for profit as the rule of thumb, where supply and demand can influence that % in one direction or the other, but not indefinitely so. I like to make sure that no one ever makes any less than the 1F per hour production wage, nor makes too much more than the value of 3 fish/Fruit or 7 pieces of wood on staple items the lack of access to which would reduce a newbies growth potential. I don't necessarily feel pricing caps are needed for advanced tier goods such as gemmed items and the like, but for basic production at least, tiers 1 and 2, I like for people whose daily earnings are limited to a range of about 25F-42F to be able to easily afford everything they need. Though Aingeal has likewise counterpointed stagnation as a consequence of this. The topic is brought up from time to time.
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Myrth

Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Myrth »

Bravia has paid a steep price, indeed, for its choices. Governing is about more than the vigorous prosecution of every perceived breach of the law, about more than over-charging the loyal citizen above and beyond whatever the breach may have been. It is about fairness and justice, about listening to all sides, about looking ahead to the future and taking measured actions, having considered the consequences likely to follow.

Bravia was, apparently, thinking only of achieving victory, in their military action combined with duel challenge. That was quite sneaky and under-handed, at least from my perspective, with the knowledge I have of the situation. I suspect that the situation could have been negotiated, thus avoiding serious longterm damage to one of Bravia's finest. They certainly did not give negotiations much, if any, of a chance. And, being in a rush, they took the path of sneaky dishonor. No one with any sense of honor brings an army to back them up in a duel.

Bravia also made a serious blunder in charging Ophelia with treason, the highest crime possible. That is why there is such a thing as prosecutorial discretion. The prosecutor should look at all the evidence before making the decision to prosecute, and if to prosecute, what charge is appropriate, given all the evidence. The idea is not to issue charges and only then look at the evidence, but that is the common attitude within the leadership of the VR. There is no concept of prosecutorial discretion within the Bravian government.

The aim is justice, not retribution at all costs.

As to the prosecutor's animus towards the defendant, I note the prosecutor's prior advocacy of a law aimed at the defendant's (Ophelia's) prior selling of goods at a fair market price while she was mayor, which happened to be less than the prosecutor's prices. Interestingly, the prosecutor did not have animus toward the then mayor (Nocturne), who was also selling as mayor for fair prices. The prosecutor looks out for herself, but has also shown a peculiar animus towards the defendant, wanting the ability to prosecute her, but not necessarily others who do the same thing.

I will say no more on this topic. Bravia is behind me, thank the mages, and the injustices of that supposed democracy are, perhaps, why there are so many ex-Bravians.
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Wyllow
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Re: **Advisory- Per Vicerine Varann**

Post by Wyllow »

Nice try with all that. The charges have to due with what was reported in the Prosecutor's office, not what you perceive as personal vendettas and I will kindly ask you to stop with your slader of my person.. It takes more than market foo-hoo, to draw my attention for more than ten seconds, as I simply don't care who does what for the most part. When I am a council member, I do what I can to do my part, outside of that I have too much studying that I would prefer to occupy my time. As I said before, I have better things to do than waste time on some, that simply mean nothing to my day to day life.

As to being put in the Prosecution seat, I tried to get out of it. I didn't want to be put there, so you can stop the accusations at any time. I have never even held the office for more than a day or two's time when I was on council in Kiene and that was a very, very, very long time ago. I certainly do not miss those musical chair days of my early life. Thank goodness that is over...

As to the laws and why:
1) An unsanctioned Revolt, - public disorder
2) An unsanctioned Army - treason

I will leave a highlight of the laws here for you to read over Myrth:
I. Treason - Treason against the Viceroy of Bravia is illegal. Treason is a serious crime that is defined as any offence against the security of the Viceroy. Examples of treasonous actions include (but are not limited to):

a. Levying a war within the Viceroy without authorization
b. Leading or participating in a foreign army onto Bravian soil without express authorization from the Viceregal Council.
c. Raising an unauthorized army on Bravian soil

d. Assisting an enemy of Bravia
e. Attempting to invade the Viceroy or modify the borders, including (but not limited to) participating in or holding a rank in a foreign army.
f. Betraying the confidence of the Viceroy or the Viceregal Council by sharing the contents of the private Council forums with anyone not on the council
g. Engaging in behavior that would compromise the security of Bravia *
III. Public Disorder – Public Disorder is illegal and may result in mild to serious charges at the discretion of the Judge and based on damages. Crimes of Public Disorder may include:

a. Revolt – Any attempt to remove a legally elected or appointed official from a Town Hall or the Viceregal castle is considered a moderate to serious crime.

i. Attempted revolt - if not authorized by the Viceregal Council will be prosecuted.
ii. Successful revolt - if not authorized by the Viceregal Council will be prosecuted
I will also add, that had I not been switched out of the Prosecutors office to be put in the Finance Ministers office, Rieron would have been charged too. Ophelia appeared in TWO armies. One of her own and one of an enemy of Bravia. Technically, there could have been two counts of treason against her. On a side note, all this happened with about 4 days left in council, and as of today, tomorrow a new council will take place. The case under me would not even see fruition by myself. So all your rants are a pretty moot point, unfortunately.

The great thing is, I long for the times I can hit the books again. It was also nice to have gone up against Rieron, and only suffered a scratch and temporary blinding, though, I am pretty sure my skill has been honed a little better than he may have expected. Not too bad when you are the age you are, going up against someone that is older than dirt.
((No idea what happened with the others, just know how my part of the fight went))

With a shrug, and a skip in her step she smiles before exiting the conversation. It was true form of council.. the ending bit, she thought to herself. It had been such a quiet and uneventful term she had served on, even if the ending was a little on the harry side. But it really didn't matter to her now. The end was near. And many wondered why it was so hard to find those willing to serve. She shook her head, her smile spreading on her face. There were a few things she was happy about. End of Council term.. the sun shining down.. and a loving husband waiting for her at home.
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