Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

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Marleen

Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Marleen »

Double check the prices of items that the Town Hall sells?

There are many items that Town Hall sells for the minimum price, so it is impossible for real people to sell for any less. In other words, the Town Hall is hurting business. It's a coin flip on whether someone buys from a person or the Town Hall and there is absolutely zero profit to be had on these items. I would like it if Town Hall raised their prices so that they would at least sell a little more than the item's minimum price. I believe that Feathers and Salt are two such items.

This situation is made more annoying by the Town Hall flooding the market with several items. There are rules that we people cannot do it but the Town Hall does. For example, Town Hall is selling 90 feathers. I don't know if it is possible to do anything about this, so if I am ignorant, I am sorry.
Nocturne

Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Nocturne »

Buy a chunk and sell them to me at a minor profit. Makes the trip worthwhile :-P. I'm sure I can find some creative uses for feathers.
Vhagar

Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Vhagar »

It is very possible! Anyone is free to send me a message anytime. I am still learning the way the market moves etc and would gladly take advice! I have removed the offending feathers, goodness I didn't even realize how many were up there until you'd pointed it out! How embarrassing...and my sincerest apologies. Please feel free to send me a message anytime you have a question or concern. I am here to serve the citizens, after all! And thank you!
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balerion
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Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by balerion »

Imperius temple will always buy any extra feathers at 2.2f or less.
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Marleen

Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Marleen »

I am still a level 1 player and will not be able to afford VR council for a long time. My thoughts are that town hall and temple prices should be higher than the minimum for all items and higher than what a player might sell for so that players can try to earn a little profit. Think of town hall and temple prices as a "market max price" for items, especially when there are a lot of them, so they are there to effectively stop players from price gouging while making sure needed goods still float about on the market. I don't have enough knowledge of crafting and how it affects the economy yet to talk about items like stone and gold so I left them alone.



18 Pork Bellies @ 7f by Temple [Price Range 2-20f]
should be moved to at least 11f-15f, so that players can earn at least a little profit from the pig they purchased at 8f.

19 chaffs @ 7f by Town Hall [Price Range 2-20f]
I feel should be moved to 8f - 15f. Houses are supposed to be a luxury item, chaff is supposed to be uncommon or rareish, and I believe players have given up on selling them and are hoarding them because of the low prices.

17 golem pieces @ 3.95f [Price range 2-50f]
maybe moved to 5f - 8f so that this foraging item can at least earn a little money from players. AFIK they're not really used for anything except equipment

3 hangman noose @ 5.6f by temple [Price Range 5-120f]
Perhaps 8f - 12f

1 bovine bone @3.95 by temple [ Price Range 2- 50f]
Perhaps 5f
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balerion
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Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by balerion »

Most of those are 'junk items.' People don't need them at most any price. You could maybe sell the chaff in Imperius and make a bit of money.
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Constance_de_Vere

Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Constance_de_Vere »

I agree that most of those items are junk and anything that you forage up or get as freebee off your field, don't expect big profit on unless it's ultra rare, just because everyone who forages daily is getting these items.

Just so you know, golem pieces aren't just equipment. They are also used to make the house golems. I would much rather use cheap golem pieces found by foraging than make them which would cost around 40 a piece. The shop creation of golem pieces is stupid expensive.

There is a level assistance program here. There is also a scholarship program for when you need to take classes to level.

The stone and iron and gold prices are generally set from Viceregal sell prices plus a little for the town to profit. Those aren't items that normal people are or should be making a profit on in their raw forms. Gold may be the only one since it can be used as a boost to opulence in the house.
Vhagar

Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Vhagar »

There was a brief period of time recently where chaffs were selling pretty quickly and sought after. Those 19 have been up for some time and no one has bought them, though. It seems they are no longer selling quickly and having spoken to active wheat farmers when they were recently selling quickly, I do not believe they are being hoarded. Most of those were either donated or sold straight to town hall at a much lower price than that.

I purchase pigs at 7 freznics and so 7 would be the break even price there, but alas it does not seem that pork bellies move very quickly either.

I could up the price of the Chaffs on the market, I had placed them there because they were recently sought after, but I am not sure that will mean others will place them on the market.
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Duke_of_Earl
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Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Duke_of_Earl »

Ah, sorry, this topic is my schtick, but I've been a bit out of circulation as of late. I'm the one who set all the default prices used by the town hall and the local temple, it doesn't come from the VR level. I have all my calculations listed out in the Town council. You may join even being level one. We may be seeking a new trade coordinator to fill the spot often held by myself or Aida. I'll try to export some of my work out here if I can for public review.

For some of the things you've already mentioned:
-Salt is sold at 5F as an addition to the 13F mining wage and the proportional value of gemstone averages to bring mining jobs to a >~20F daily total. TH doesn't obtain the salt itself but buys it regularly from those who post it and then reposts it for the same 5F. This is so miners don't have to wait for their salt to be bought as workshop ingredients but can sell the salt immediately and then workshop owners can buy the salt from TH eventually over time. TH thus also makes no profit from the salt but assumes the cost of waiting for the sale. Most citizens don't mine and we don't especially want to encourage them to do so. Unlike in other realms, mining in Secfenia is largely done by ((npc)) peasants. Jobs that can't be done by peasants such as fishing are the jobs we try to encourage more of by having them offer a greater wage. Salt can be marked up higher of course, but it is an ingredient in several recipes that would also have to increase in price if salt does. I've tried to keep food prices as cheap as possible within reason by keeping as many of their base costs such as salt to a minimum.

Feathers pile up on the market unused. The temple can recycle feathers at a cost of 2.22F. Thus TH usually buys feathers posted at 2-2.20F, reposts them for 2.20 at a very slight profit or a break even rate and then temple buys the feathers at 2.20 to recycle at 2.22. I've been leaving some feathers up there at 2.20 for the weaver, but can remove them if you feel they are causing an artificial ceiling. Usually due to lack of demand, feathers are a minimum value product. All products with a minimum cost of 2F can be recycled by the temple to keep supply down relative to demand, so when products start falling below 2.25, the TH does a market sweep, buys up all the excess at once and posts it to the temple to recycle. In this way, money is continually distributed to the population.

Tell me what other products you would like checked and I will post my equations for each one. If you think the profit scales are too low, we have no problem adjusting them up a bit. This world actually has inflation, and some of of my original calculations were based on a profit scale of 20-24F which I already had to scale up once prior to v3.
Last edited by Duke_of_Earl on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Duke_of_Earl
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Re: Hey Fenia VR, could you please...

Post by Duke_of_Earl »

((NOTE: For RP purposes, presume all my subsequent answers are likewise delivered by written text rather than spoken word.))
Marleen wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:40 pmI am still a level 1 player and will not be able to afford VR council for a long time.
The VR council is a whole different story, but feel free to join the town council. My position is a bit vacant as I am presently distracted from the affairs of this world that I usually give more regular and detailed attention to.
Marleen wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:40 pmMy thoughts are that town hall and temple prices should be higher than the minimum for all items and higher than what a player might sell for so that players can try to earn a little profit. Think of town hall and temple prices as a "market max price" for items, especially when there are a lot of them, so they are there to effectively stop players from price gouging while making sure needed goods still float about on the market.
I have used the TH and Temple mechanics to set not only the ceiling prices of goods but also the floor prices. One problem this kind of economy faces aside from the possibility of price gouging is the possibility of undercutting to monopolize sales. In this world, the higher the level of your workshop and steward, the quicker you can produce an item for, thus older, higher level players can produce items cheaper then new professionals can. This allows some players to post a tier-1 food item for 3.5F that others must post for 7F. For this reason, we encourage all citizens to post it for 7F and the older ones simply make extra profit; those unconcerned with profit can sell via TH only for less and TH posts at 7F too so citizens can eat it. 7F already includes a worker profit of 24F over the material cost. This system arranges for everyone to make this 24F as a minimum production wage. You are correct in that we don't really have too much of a range between this figure and a maximum wage of say 40F. We can repost the cheaper goods that citizens sell to TH for more than the floor price, but we are also a tax free environment and TH also does need to resell the goods it buys in or it can't continue to do so, or to fund the other services we provide. Ideally, the town has a roving trader who can take some of these excess goods to foreign markets (Bravia/Kiene) rather than simply keeping them on ours. Our most active trader recently has been Gemma. I am interested in trading too, but am occupied by other responsibilities at the moment.
Marleen wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:40 pm I don't have enough knowledge of crafting and how it affects the economy yet to talk about items like stone and gold so I left them alone.
Gold and Stone and Iron are VR set prices determined by the cost of production. TH buys them from a VR market and then sells them at the local market for a very slight markup, from .05-1F. Individuals can not usually acquite their own gold, stone, or iron; though sometime the odd piece can be found while scavenging. Similarly, salt can occasionally be found scavenging but is typically a product exclusively tied to mining. You get 1 salt for each mining job taken. This is why salt has so little value, even folks who use it such as butchers, can just spend a few days mining their own and get it plus 13F, plus a chance at a precious gemstone.
Marleen wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:40 pm Pork Bellies @ 7f by Temple [Price Range 2-20f]
should be moved to at least 11f-15f, so that players can earn at least a little profit from the pig they purchased at 8f.

19 chaffs @ 7f by Town Hall [Price Range 2-20f]
I feel should be moved to 8f - 15f. Houses are supposed to be a luxury item, chaff is supposed to be uncommon or rareish, and I believe players have given up on selling them and are hoarding them because of the low prices.

17 golem pieces @ 3.95f [Price range 2-50f]
maybe moved to 5f - 8f so that this foraging item can at least earn a little money from players. AFIK they're not really used for anything except equipment

3 hangman noose @ 5.6f by temple [Price Range 5-120f]
Perhaps 8f - 12f

1 bovine bone @3.95 by temple [ Price Range 2- 50f]
Perhaps 5f
-A steward Pig costs 7F. Pork bellies should cost at least 8, it's true, but in a sec I'll go over why it isn't, and again why their a pull on salt prices down to 5F rather than higher.

-Chaffs are usually also a 2.20F product. A weed item. They are more costly at present because they are an ingredient in houses an scarecrows, new necessities that came with v3 so everyone needed some. As time goes on, they will settle back down.

-Golum pieces are another product for which I've recycled plenty at 2.20F. They serve no real function yet, though some people will stockpile the ones they find for when they do. In a recent halloween event, they were used to build and fuel defensive golems against a zombie attack, events like this happen throughout the year, one uses mints, another roses, etc. Most of the ones I've got listed were bought in at that price and reposted or were bought in as a sweep from several different people and posted at the average of what they were paid for. I can post them for higher, but it is usually best to do that during the event month in which they are used. Throughout the rest of the year they tend to go down in price and only serious competitors for the event titles even bother to buy any at all. Most people either settle for stockpiling what they get for free over the year or don't even bother and are the ones selling them for ~3F that I bought them from in the first place. Sometime when the market gets too many lines of the same product, I have the temple or TH buy it all up and repost just to fit it all back into 1 line.

-Hangmans noose was an event item too. I think it is producable now but it is a new item and I've done no math concerning it. They are also awaiting new mechanics and currently aren't functional items accept perhaps as an outfit piece? Again the one I have listed from the temple would have been bought in at that price and reposted at the same price rather than for a profit. I can post it for higher, but there is some debate over whether it is morally appropriate for the temple to make sales profits. Aside from donations, the way the temple makes money is by recycling / sacrificially burning items bought in at 2-2.20 for 2.22 that is divinely generated. If I recycle 100 2F feathers for example, I make the temple 22F in 'profit'. The temple can recycle donation items this way too and this how we fund the defenders and the WP jobs, and a 'peasant fund'. The temple runs in the black atm, and unless we go red, I'd rather not post things up for more than what I buy it in for. I buy things in when it looks like they have been up for a while and no one else has bought it. I like to keep cash flowing from the insititutions to the citizens.

-bovine bones are 'free' items that butchers get when turning cow carcasses into steak. Butchers use these internally to produce bone gear. Bone gear is of use to evil-aligned folk. I can talk for hours about the butchery industry, but believe me these do not deserve to cost more than 2F. I have many recorded conversations over the years pertaining to the butchery industry. One of which I will revisit in a moment to clarify the salt and pigbellies problem.
Last edited by Duke_of_Earl on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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