Discussion-Mentor Reports

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marleen
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Discussion-Mentor Reports

Post by marleen »

Can @duke_of_earl or another analysis-minded fellow post an analysis of the current economy and jobs, as there was a few posts ago in this thread? I am dying to read.

I feel like Fenia had gotten quite large and I am uncertain if some products, ingredients, and professions have gotten out of balance. I am worried about the massive quantities of product that aren't moving, as well as the players sitting on their own caches, and I am begging to wonder if perhaps Fenia is simply too over-populated. Yes, I understand that the TH subsides MUCH.

For example, there is only 1 sheep farmer, but two weavers, and it seems the market is well stocked with weaver products (clothing is a buy once then done). But there is a massive cache of wool that is not moving. I suspect there are some wool caches those weavers may be sitting on. This is just one example but there are many complexities like this that I see on the market and in the demographics and I am worried.
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Argenth
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Argenth »

I'm not currently in town, but before I left for a trade run I don't remember having seen any balls of wool on the market. The wool that is currently on the market is it balls or scraps of wool? Because scraps of different materials are a rather useless material at it's current state, produced from recycling former products. Scraps of wool for example, it's current use is that it can be remade into new balls of wool, though it is a more costly process than aquiring new balls of wool from a farmer.
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Ella
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Ella »

"Welcome to our fine town, @marleen. As mayor, I prefer to allow for a more free market as I feel that keeps things healthier. Many of the items you see duplicates of on the market are items that are found while foraging that creatures either have enough of or do not have any use for personally."

"Now, if you have any items that you wish to get moved quickly from your personal inventory you can write to me and we can discuss prices."
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Duke_of_Earl
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Duke_of_Earl »

Ella wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:01 pmAs mayor, I prefer to allow for a more free market as I feel that keeps things healthier.

Really? I hadn't known that and have still been doing my best to help manage the market via the temple, at least until the recent changes. I don't believe in completely 'free markets'; and have found them to be significantly less healthy than thoroughly managed markets; particularly in a Feudal Monarchy relative to a Republic.

Many of the items you see duplicates of on the market are items that are found while foraging that creatures either have enough of or do not have any use for personally."
@marleen & others;
Zachrin recently changed the way recycling works.
Previously; all items could be recycled for 11% more than their minimum purchase values. Items like golem pieces for example which were posted for 2F-2.20F could be ought by the temple and recycled for 2.22F
Now items recycle for -10% of their minimum purchase price. The recycle value of a 2F item is now 1.80F and the recycle value of a 5F item is 4.50F.
This has slowed my ability to overturn weed items as doing so now comes at a loss to the temple which must me made up somewhere else.
I'm still in the process of researching which items if any I can use to fund the recycling costs of other items. I'm otherwise doing my best to try and convert primary goods into secondary ones but it is likewise slow going. Hopefully I will soon hit level 5 and be able to pick up that pace a little bit.

marleen wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:44 pmI feel like Fenia had gotten quite large and I am uncertain if some products, ingredients, and professions have gotten out of balance. I am worried about the massive quantities of product that aren't moving, as well as the players sitting on their own caches, and I am begging to wonder if perhaps Fenia is simply too over-populated. Yes, I understand that the TH subsides MUCH.

We and Imperius are now about tie in population at about 30 and are the the most populous cities in Fenia.
The three others are about 20 and cork is less; we are trying to boost theirs so they wont be shut down.
Even so, 30 is still not especially populated. we're hoping we can hit 50.

For example, there is only 1 sheep farmer, but two weavers, and it seems the market is well stocked with weaver products (clothing is a buy once then done).
Mine isn't weaver anymore, though I might shift back for a week if Adamus can't make scarecrows yet. Clothing decomposition is coded in now, people do have to replace clothing from time to time.

But there is a massive cache of wool that is not moving.
That's because it's up at 6.50. I wont buy wool for more than 5F tops.
Wool that is posted for the right price will still move right away. 70 isn't too massive a cache.
If I did swap back I could process all of that in one set of projects; but it's too expensive for me to consider @6.50.

I suspect there are some wool caches those weavers may be sitting on.
nods, it costs less than 2F to produce wool all things considered so a weaver is better off using their own stocks rather than buying from a separate sheep farmer.
The same is true for cows and butchers/millers. Market prices for milk are still ~7.50; and I found it can still actually be produced for 5F.

marleen wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:44 pmThis is just one example but there are many complexities like this that I see on the market and in the demographics and I am worried.

Why is it worrying?
((Hey, if you are the same Marleen from before you might be able reactivate your former account rather than having to start over from scratch. Have you written to Zachrine about it?))
Last edited by Duke_of_Earl on Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikola
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Nikola »

Duke_of_Earl wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:42 pm
Ella wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:01 pmAs mayor, I prefer to allow for a more free market as I feel that keeps things healthier.

Really? I hadn't known that and have still been doing my best to help manage the market via the temple, at least until the recent changes. I don't believe in 'free markets'; at least not in a place like Fenia. They may be fine for a republic like Bravia, but they create an urban jungle where social darwinism can cause some to fail or fall behind and others to far outpace their peers. Free markets do not favor equity.

That was uncalled for, Duke. Particularly as your tight control of the market when I first moved to Fenia meant there was very little on the market and people were eating their produce rather than selling it as they couldn't afford to sell it at the rock bottom prices you demanded as the acceptable price. You still seem to enjoy bringing in items that are not from your workshop in order to undermine the craftsmen in Fenia City, making their workshops obsolete while you gather the profits that could have been theirs. You have certainly benefited from a free market, yet you claim you don't believe in them.

I absolutely do not believe in any one creature trying to completely control the market. Your strategy may work well for you personally, but not so much for anyone else. You profit plenty by controlling the market and undermining the other creatures in town. How is that being civic minded and helpful? Markets work pretty much the same anywhere that people are allowed to grow, make and sell what is needed and they are capable of producing. The fact that Fenia is a monarchy has absolutely nothing to do with how markets work.

Fenia's market has a lot of choices and is healthier than it ever was when you were in total control of it. Yes, there are several people trying to sell the same items, but that gives the buyer choices. How is that a bad thing? If a seller finds his product isn't moving, he can always either lower the price to be more competitive or take it elsewhere to sell. I have seen Imperius' market and their prices are much higher than Fenia's, but lower still than Kiene and Bravia. You think Bravia is better suited for a free market? Paz has almost nothing on its market and while Bravia City's market has more choice and volume, their prices are ridiculously high almost across the board. Why is that? Because there are only two or three people producing there and they keep the prices elevated in much the same way you have tried to keep the creatures of Fenia City from making a profit on their produce by demanding that they sell so cheaply that they cannot recoup their costs.

Fenia's markets are far healthier both in choices and in prices than either of the markets in Bravia and that's in spite of your efforts to control ours, not because of it. When I first moved here I chose to live in Fenia City because the market was virtually bare of needed items. People were asking, almost begging for basic items and not getting them from the town so I thought I could help. Turns out they weren't getting them because you were not allowing those items to sit on the market long enough for the people to get to them. Why you believe that an empty market at rock bottom prices is healthy is a mystery to me. Empty markets mean people can't get what they want or need. Rock bottom prices might sound good in theory, but it means no profits for the sellers which means creatures go back to eating or using their own produce instead of selling what other creatures need.

Remember the potato famine? We had plenty of potato farmers, but under your rules, they couldn't afford to sell their produce so they ate their own and people without a potato field could not get the charisma stats they needed. I tried importing broccoli from Bravia but it turned out all that was needed to encourage our own people to work their fields and sell their potatoes was to offer them a decent price for the potatoes. You came unglued at that, but it worked. The potato famine was crushed and we have a healthy supply of potatoes on the market plus we can now export the potatoes which we could not do before. The prices fluctuate based on what people are willing to pay, but the potatoes are there for people who need them.

Remember the egg shortage? Peasants were snapping up most of the few eggs that ever made it to market. We had chicken farmers but they couldn't make enough money on their product to keep eggs on the market so they were juggling their own eggs and creatures who needed to work on their dexterity couldn't. While it is true that peasants' buying up the cheap eggs was a bit of a problem, you compounded it by not allowing people to even try to price their eggs such that the peasants would leave them alone and civilized creatures could get to them. We solved that shortage, too. Now we have plenty of eggs for people to use to either eat, bake with, or juggle to increase dexterity and they are no longer being hoarded in the Town Hall where they are inaccessible to creatures who need them.

Fenia's market is healthy and diverse and one of the most reasonably priced markets in all of Secfenia. Do we have some items that are priced high? Of course. These are usually from traders visiting from outside the province, but occasionally local creatures will try to make more than is warranted on their products. When given a choice, most creatures will choose the lower priced items so that the market tends to correct itself in that if a seller isn't moving their produce and they need it to sell, they will either lower the price to a more competitive level or remove the product and take it elsewhere.

Fenia doesn't need you to strip the market to keep it healthy. If anything, that just gives the sellers a false sense of need and keeps them producing more than is truly needed under the assumption that the product is in demand. As for social darwinism causing some to fail or fall behind and others to far outpace their peers, some people fall behind their peers simply because they are not competitive and prefer to progress at their own pace. Others fall behind because they do not speak up and let their needs be known. Some people are driven to succeed and they will almost always outpace their brethren as a result. It is the way things are. People are different. You cannot force every creature to fit the same mold. If a creature chooses to progress more slowly than you think they should, then by all means offer advice, but let them decide for themselves whether to accept that advice. If a creature is driven to succeed and seems to be progressing more quickly than you think they ought, is it right to place obstacles to slow them down?

You and I have gone around and around about this and I am never going to see your idea of stripping the market and keeping it bare as healthy. You insult our mayor who has been responsive to requests from her citizens and has worked hard to make sure the market has plenty of what our creatures need on it, working with the VR and her citizens to produce items that are needed. If you are still stripping the market to recycle just because you don't like to see things available to our citizens, then you have been making her job harder than it should be. When you strip the market of what you deem to be surplus, you send a message that the product you are buying is in demand and that often means more of that product finds its way back on the market in anticipation of meeting that presumption of need. If anything, you may be creating the very problem you seem to be trying to solve by doing this to the market.Perhaps you should stop and let us learn what really IS needed and what is not. If you think we are overproducing, how are we to every find out if that is the case if you keep buying up the extra?
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Duke_of_Earl »

@marleen
Fields
-Chicken: Duke_of_Earl, Karysia, Thartis, Racod_Jarka,
-Corn: Johnstone, Dahlia, Gemma, Xylia, Karysia, Faranni, Rakus, Janetta, Cristal,
-Cow: Texas_Knight,
-Klah: Rakus, Fireheart,
-Sheep: Ermalyse,
-Veggie: Nikola, Rannek(x2), Duke_of_Earl, Xylia, Dwayberry, Silenus(x2), Argenth(x2), Ella, Evan(x2), Adamus, Janetta, Chronicler(x2), Racod_Jarka, Zehara, Highlandpotter(x2), Athanasia,
-Wheat: Johnstone, Texas_Knight, Nikola, Dahlia, Gemma, Dwayberry, Archadeas(2), Bloodstone(x2), Ella, Arianrhod, Adamus, Thartis, Ermalyse, Fitz(x2), Zehara, Izumari, marleen,

Workshops
-Baker: Nikola, Duke_of_Earl, Faranni,
-Blacksmith: Silenus, Bloodstone, Rakus, Janetta, Chronicler
-Butcher: Texas_Knight, Dahlia, Evan, Ella, Karysia,
-Carpenter: Johnstone, Gemma, Xylia,
-Mason: Rannek, Archadeas, Argenth
-Miller: Johnstone, Nikola, Dwayberry, Thartis
-Weaver: Adamus, Ermalyse

@Nikola Sorry; I'd edited it already before I started the above post.
I'll respond to yours though anyway; gimmie a sec.
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Duke_of_Earl »

.I lost the post. will have to try again after some sleep.
Edit: Take two
Lost bits again and redid them.
----
► Show Spoiler

----

cont.

--let's moe this to pm if you want to contue eh?
Last edited by Duke_of_Earl on Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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marleen
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by marleen »

It is, I chose to start over. (Thanks!)

@Duke_of_Earl Get yourself a form saver, like Lazarus browser extension? You will say "Ah, I don't need it", but when you panic that you just lost your post because your cat laid on your computer while you got up to get a snack (or whatever), you'll love it from that moment on. Also, there are browser extensions so that you can drag your mouse and open a bunch of links at once (... say a bunch of creatures from the TH population listing all in one mouse drag...) - I use Snap Links but it doesn't work well with Secfenia's iFrames.
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Rannek »

((I should also note that it seems Lazarus is no longer compatible with Chrome. At least last time I checked, that may potentially have changed.))
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Re: Mentor Reports.

Post by Amnestria »

(I just hit the back button and my post seems to always still be there. I have done it more than once on my phone especially when my kid comes up pressing buttons. )
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