Release 3.1.004 Preview

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Amaryllis
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Amaryllis » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:55 am

balerion wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:25 am
A number of players have bluntly stated a number of times the end game is devoid of goals. It isn't the end of the world, but I've made over 10,000f with nothing to spend it on other than the occasional gem.

I also don't know if level 7 would help, but I don't think the statement is unfair. I've nothing to spend my money on, my fields lay fallow for I've no need to bother to produce anything. I do idle raw resource collection just to pass the time.

It is an unfair statement. Just because you choose not to spend money or work your fields, that is your choice not to. The statement was about game stagnancy at L6. (As if it stops at that, and that is it, which it does not) And it simply is not a fair statement to make, even claiming that 10% of the population has nothing to do, (which they admitted they did not even know if that was an accurate number to toss out there - it is not.) is what the statement was made as. The player that did so, is not a L6 to know what else is out there after reaching level 6. Or if they were a previous returning player, things have changed since the last cap. There are some Level 6 players that have streamlined their way to L6 quickly, and it isn't many compared to the active players in the game, and those that are L6 have still have avenues of much game play that they have not explored or paths that they have gone down yet, at their choice. That is because people play characters the way they wish. That is how it is preferred. We have many players that don't advance past level 1, Level 2, Level 3, Level 4, or Level 5, by choice because their characters story does not allow for them to yet, or possibly not at all. This is not a game anyone can win.

I will caution new players to not always place great stock in some information they may get upon joining sometimes. I am speaking of things that sound not so positive. Not saying that this always happens, but it is discouraging to see new players constantly speaking about experiences that they couldn't possibly know, yet, have not had even the level to experience it yet.

One other thing: Player retention starts by current players being encouraging in their interactions with others (new or returning players), rather than discouraging in one way or another (whether you dislike admins - or other players/characters.. etc). We here listen to players. We have an Active Admin that codes for us. He adds new things on suggestions of the players. He seeks out positive changes, but also must balance everything to make it workable for the game. It take an incredible amount of time from the time an idea is given, and the work/code that goes into it to see fruition and be put into the game as a functional and working thing. There are some that are bent on being negative no matter what is done. Count yourself lucky that you have an admin that listens to players and implements new features every single day that are proposed BY the players. Also, please keep in mind ONE man is doing all the work, not a team of people that he can just snap his fingers for something to be instantly done. If you can find a more accommodating game that is 10 years old, that is a one man show, that continually tries to bring something fresh and new to it every year, I would love for anyone to PM me the game name.

Back to your comment:
You mention you have nothing to spend money on.
Perhaps Salt would be a good thing to use it on, to help make Winter Movements easier? ;)
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waerth
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by waerth » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:09 pm

Amaryllis wrote:
If you can find a more accommodating game that is 10 years old, that is a one man show, that continually tries to bring something fresh and new to it every year, I would love for anyone to PM me the game name. 

Dwarf Fortress ...

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balerion
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by balerion » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:20 pm

Our perspectives are different. I personally don't have ways to improve my character. I've done everything I deem worth doing. I know others who also have. This isn't an insult, it's where I'm at.

You've made clear you think the statement is unfair. By all means. Whatever.

The suggestions being made are what really matter.

The roads stopped being a problem when the bugs preventing Generals from salting them were fixed. It made all the difference.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Vhagar » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:33 pm

I mean, without players there would also not be a game.

Also Ia m happy you've asked players to name other games I can check out.
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Xis
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Xis » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:49 pm

From the perspective of a blacksmith, I wouldn't mind the removal of, or at least the repurposing of holy resin. Repair shops have been on the design roadmap since August 2016, but have been postponed due to time constraints; currently planned for release with 3.1.005...

My vision for what the repair shop would offer would be much like Tavern Shops — except on a Town, or perhaps VR level; if you can access a VR university, you could probably reach a repair shop — where craftsmen would repair equipment for a fee, at the expense of their raw materials. Obviously, craftsmen would only be able to repair equipment they themselves would craft, less they further damage the piece of equipment.

As to repurposing holy resin... Perhaps equipment would deteriorate in stats the further into disrepair it became? Every 20% your equipment becomes less effective, with holy resin's restoring your equipment's stats temporary? Perhaps to encourage players to repair their equipment more often than just general upkeep, allow craftsmen the ability to hone weapons and equipment; honed equipment offering a temporary bonus to stats, and perhaps skill gain?
                                                  

I like the idea of adding bandits, and other various "baddies" to the outskirts of towns; witches, cults, thieves and smugglers, poachers, mercenary warbands, highwaymen, et cetera... If left unchecked, each of which could have their own negative aspects to VRs.
  • Witches and cults abduct NPC children, making the town people unhappy, and potentially revolting
  • Thieves and smuggling rings steal items
  • Poachers would hunt VR livestock
  • Roaming warbands (potentially for hire from rival VRs?) could siege town and castle walls and mines, or be employed to defend (but you better make sure you pay them well)
  • Highwaymen would potentially tax travelers passing unless protected or fought...
Town mayors and VR leaders could list jobs for aspiring Bounty Hunters or independent armies to take care of these events. Traveling merchants could list a bodyguard job to aid in their travels, or risk being taxed or attacked while traveling.

From a role-playing perspective, Xis would much rather fight with NPCs who have broken the law for their profit than fight PCs who merely want to test their strength.This would give players further reason to upgrade their equipment, and offer additional ways to level up one's combat skills above 75% without dueling or hunting — for players which would rather RP those events than via a metagame method.

I honestly haven't taken part in much of Secfenia's combat, and would ask players with more experience of those workings to events and mechanics they'd like to experience with armies.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:57 pm

So, I'm against making holy resin useless as it means that unique items cannot be repaired at all (such as legendary weapons). These weapons also can't be replaced. If it was to be re-purposed, I think we should have some way of repairing these.
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Xis
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Xis » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:10 pm

Alder wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:57 pm
So, I'm against making holy resin useless as it means that unique items cannot be repaired at all (such as legendary weapons). These weapons also can't be replaced. If it was to be re-purposed, I think we should have some way of repairing these.
If we're trying to consume excess materials, why would legendary weapons be exempt from being repaired? Promotion prizes from the yearly raffle might be more of a problem, but an easy solution to that would to be treat them as a unique version of their base item, or repair them either as a legendary item, but as they have an unimaginable amount of health any debate of them is next to moot.
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Zachrin » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:20 pm

I just wanted to take a few minutes to reply to some odds and ends comments here.
Marleen wrote:I think that it's important to understand the ratio of players who are max level or near max level, versus the players who are growing and consuming
The number of max level/stat people are about 12% of our active player population. In theory, everyone else can consume stat foods, etc. Of course, even the max stat people also have to eat some as well. One potential "fix" to the high cap issue is to require people to eat stat food from time to time to prevent stat loss.
balerion wrote:A number of players have bluntly stated a number of times the end game is devoid of goals. It isn't the end of the world, but I've made over 10,000f with nothing to spend it on other than the occasional gem.

...Our perspectives are different. I personally don't have ways to improve my character. I've done everything I deem worth doing. I know others who also have.
Part of the challenge is this is an open sandbox game. So, we are not designed to constantly have goals that might fit every person in every situation hard coded. Some goals are meant to be created by our players on what they want to accomplish. As you have said, there are things that you may have access to do that you don't want to do. Of course, that is your choice. If you have ideas to add new goals for yourself to do, we welcome new suggestions in the suggestion box. While I won't guarantee that everything suggested will be added quickly or at all, I have personally put in a majority of ideas over the decade while running the game.
waerth wrote:Spice Road
We have an ocean and boats. Why not open some distant destinations with certain demands for goods in exchange for freznics or maybe even exotic currencies. And they could be selling items we can't make ourselves. Maybe even a land route. We have horses now, we could even trade for camels. The land route should start from the far end of the realms.

Imaging a caravan bringing back spices, ivory, incense for the temples etc. On these trade expeditions people could be robbed and attacked too. This could be a Freznic sink and add some movement to the markets.
I have no issues with potentially adding stuff like this, but would it be used? What value would the goods have? The original idea I had back in the day had different currencies for different VR's, but I went against that because I feared some would be more confused and frustrated with having to deal with currency exchanges, etc.

Perhaps you can open up a thread in the suggestion box for this and it can be talked up a bit more to nail down some finer points.
waerth wrote:I know it was discussed before and the game developer is against it I believe. But I feel people should be able to open up cities and VR themselves. This could by accomplished by allowing peasants more tasks. Out of peasants could grow townsfolk whom could be rendered an ID in the game database and they could be almost like a real character giving them the option to keep the money they earn and spend it on what they need in towns.
Politics as a general rule is something that is challenging to get people involved with as it stands. Spreading the player population wider will leave many seats unfilled across the different VR's resulting in more penalties being accessed. In addition, it would probably mean less support for new players causing more to exit. With this said, other VR's do have the potential to do some trade and have in the past. Every town whether open to the player population or controlled by the peasants have a buy list. Peasant controlled towns purchase some of these items automatically.
waerth wrote:Dwarf Fortress ...
To be fair, that isn't a one man show either. There is at least 2 people I could find that code on it. They also have a larger budget as well.
vhagar wrote:I mean, without players there would also not be a game.
More appropriately, the game wouldn't be played anymore. With that said, we appreciate all of our players and will continue to reiterate that over time. I am a firm believer that we have a great player base and I love the ideas that come up. I do work hard to put in a lot of these as I can.
xis wrote:Perhaps equipment would deteriorate in stats the further into disrepair it became? Every 20% your equipment becomes less effective, with holy resin's restoring your equipment's stats temporary? Perhaps to encourage players to repair their equipment more often than just general upkeep
I do really like this idea. Maybe have it where the percentage is broken into those tiers and it is a multiplier against the stats? Can you push this idea to the suggestion box?
xis wrote:I like the idea of adding bandits, and other various "baddies" to the outskirts of towns; witches, cults, thieves and smugglers, poachers, mercenary warbands, highwaymen, et cetera... If left unchecked, each of which could have their own negative aspects to VRs.
Witches and cults abduct NPC children, making the town people unhappy, and potentially revolting
Thieves and smuggling rings steal items
Poachers would hunt VR livestock
Roaming warbands (potentially for hire from rival VRs?) could siege town and castle walls and mines, or be employed to defend (but you better make sure you pay them well)
Highwaymen would potentially tax travelers passing unless protected or fought...
I do like some of these ideas. Each have their own concerns attached to it which probably could be worked through. I'd like to see a lot of this in the suggestion box so that we could work through them.
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Alder
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Alder » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:26 pm

Most of those ideas have already been in the suggestion box and tossed around and commented on more than once.
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Zachrin
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Re: Release 3.1.004 Preview

Post by Zachrin » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:32 pm

Alder wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:26 pm
Most of those ideas have already been in the suggestion box and tossed around and commented on more than once.
I didn't recall the ones I pointed out in the suggestion box, but I haven't done a deep dive in there in a little bit. I've been picking off some of the easier things to add. Do you have the links to the threads so we can connect them? That way everyone is on the same page.
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This world is but just a canvas for our imagination - Henry David Thoreau

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