To Be Free Trade Or Not To Be (Poll Question and Discusion)

[Ciphas]

To Be Free Trade Or Not To Be

I want to start a public meeting about this subject because the decizion to keep trade free or in chains will afect every creature in Widu .


Widu Law

All citizens of Widu have the right to propose an issue and have it discussed by the current Town Council.

All citizens of Widu have the right to ask for a public meeting with the Mayor and/or Town Council regarding actions or decisions done by the Mayor or the Town Council. "

My Arguments for Free trade :

- Free markets will create competition and competition will lower prices and create better quality ,
- Free market will generate export for widu ( traders can buy and sell more then 5 items from an item ) and this will bring money for Widu ,
- Free market gives every creature a chance to make money not just the ones who have the monopol on trade ,
- Free market gives us options to be who we want and to try to do what we want not what we are told ,
- Free market will keep widu free because it will bring trades here like me who will buy widu goods and sell cheap items instead ,
- Free market will add new items on widu market that are not made in town and will bring new creature to this town .

Widu Law
( that must be changed to give free trade a chance )

1. Traders may not place any goods upon the Widu market without written permission of the Towns Mayor .
2. Excess of 10 units, per item, at any given time placed upon Widu market, will be deemed as dumping.
3. Each individual outside trade placed upon Widu Market may run for 5 (five) consecutive days time in a row, then must be removed.
4. Any none citizen of the Viceroyalty of Kiene may not buy more than 5 days worth of food .
5. They may also not purchase wood, stone, or iron unless given permission by the legally elected mayor. Any creature breaking this law will be added to the Viceroyalties army kill list.

Acording to widu law the Council Members will vote and decide the outcome of this bad law .

I will send a letter to each council member and will ask to post his vote and his reasons or ideas here but i also ask you to vote and expres your opinion because IT WILL AFECT YOU !

Council Members:

Councilor Nahren
Councilor Tesla
Viceroy Ava
General Pup
People's Representative Winnetou
Public Prosecutor Scarlet
Judge Tana
Finance Minister Reaver_Silverstone
Mine Minister Drydan
Internal Affairs Minister Texas_Knight

Notes

This is my way of trying to change the law and to see what Widu wants - if at the end of the vote the town does not want free trade and does not want traders to come and export widu goods and import difrent items i will then respect that decizion .

I will Allow re-voting because i want this to be a discusion that will explain why is important and i hope you who will read this topic will vote acording to your better judgment and not acording to what you are told to do by others and in this regard you will chose to be free .

I just want to say that this is a stupid economic move that can not be implemented in a free world .

[Tuvoria]

Some aspects of the law need to be fine tuned, but I agree with the basis of the law. Our Viceroyalty only has one market, Widu. We need to protect it to ensure the well being of the VR. Now as to the issue of 10 units listed in point 2 of the law, it needs to be clarified as to wether that is for everyone or just foreign traders. The wording is vague. A typical corn field in season yields 18-20 units.

[Ciphas]

Thank you for posting !

Now let me explain why 10 units is to little - the best seling items are food based ones to sell 10 eggs or 10 corn on a market and win let"s say 0,25f per unit does not suport a day of travel to Widu and a day of travel back to your city .

In case your city is further away you can not have profit to return to your city again .

You might consider that it is ok but keep in mind that if you do not have traders you do not have export .

At this moment i buy about 150-200 oranges from your market every week and if i will not buy them the price will drop and the widu gatherer will lose money . Also i am buying much much more items from your town then just oranges .

Usualy at a visit i buy items for about 3500- 5000f ( if you want i can send you evidence about this transactions ) export is good .

Also how about import ?

There are lots of items you do not produce here ?
You do not have fish here or wood - i bring them from fenia and bravia how can you supliment that if you do not alow traders to come and sell on your market ?

Do you think your town can live just with what it produces at the moment i have submited a list to your mayor for 20 products that i bring in town and half of them there are not here .

The university needs parchments and i bring 200 how would i be able to do that if your limit in the future will be just 10 units ?

And one last question what if the rest of the towns coppy your movement to protect their intrestes from widu in the same way ? Will secfenia become a closed world that will day because we want monopol instead of free trade ?

[Silence]

If foreign traders can make a profit from pur market and still undercut everyone else, then they must be receiving cheap items somewhere... I don't want to lose access to those cheap items if I'm honest... Ciphas here is our main supplier of stat foods, are we really going to just get rid of that?

[Wyllow]

Agreed. The law needs refinement.

However, we have one market. And if we are being honest, our market is being manipulated by outside trade.

If you look at other Towns and their laws, common courtesy is to -ask- to place items on a market that is not your own. It is what other traders do. It is the lack of respect that is being shown which is why this had to be put in place in the first place. By bringing in items that are already available on our market by our own people. Trade means to take over abundance from one place that is not needed to another place that needs them.

As a town, it is our responsibility to protect the balance, not allow for outside traders to come in and place: (An example) 100+ eggs on the market, when we already have an abundance of that item. It upsets the current economy of our market. We must preserve our workshops as well as our fields. Our professionals have to be able to make a living. They can't do that when someone brings in 100's of items that we already produce, and lowers their price to the extremes that they have been.

Until then, you are asked to remove the goods you have placed upon our market, submit them to the town Mayor for Permission to place goods on our market, or be charged with market manipulation.

If there is a need for the item you wish to trade and for it to be placed upon our market, I have every confidence in our Mayor to make that decision.

As to your poll, ((Outsiders may also participate, so using a poll does nothing to show true opinions unless voiced in this thread.))it does not include anything that makes sense to vote for or against so I can not in good conscience use your poll. Fair trade? Please think before you scalp a market.

There are many examples of members of our town giving outbursts because we are allowing outsiders to come in and take over our market so that they may make a profit while our own members of society suffer the consequence. We can not allow for this to continue.

[Derzis]

First off, I know I'm not a Widu citizen, but I was until a few days ago one of the Town's Deacons, and I've spent a lot of time in the town. It has grown dear to me and I wish to address this issue.
This is indeed a delicate matter. On the one hand, as some before me have already mentioned, Widu only has one market. This implicitly demands some sort of control for their protection, however the current law, as shown by Ciphas, must be revised. Limitations aren't particularly good for traders (as our trader friend has already pointed out), and I'm fairly certain that real traders won't place 100 eggs on the market, if the market is already full of eggs. Said trader will place them in a town that needs said eggs. Those that do overstock the market should be checked for their "trading license".
Frankly if you ask me, the best solution would be to actually give out trading licenses. Those that have them would either be citizens of Widu (who must have free market), and professional traders like Ciphas. An external trader would make a request to the Mayor's office and receive license for free trade. That way, traders can sell their wares, and the market is protected from rookies who flood the market or buy resources needed by the Viceroyalty or Town.

[Ciphas]

Agreed. The law needs refinement.

However, we have one market. And if we are being honest, our market is being manipulated by outside trade.

If you look at other Towns and their laws, common courtesy is to -ask- to place items on a market that is not your own. It is what other traders do. It is the lack of respect that is being shown which is why this had to be put in place in the first place. By bringing in items that are already available on our market by our own people. Trade means to take over abundance from one place that is not needed to another place that needs them.

As a town, it is our responsibility to protect the balance, not allow for outside traders to come in and place: (An example) 100+ eggs on the market, when we already have an abundance of that item. It upsets the current economy of our market. We must preserve our workshops as well as our fields. Our professionals have to be able to make a living. They can't do that when someone brings in 100's of items that we already produce, and lowers their price to the extremes that they have been.

Until then, you are asked to remove the goods you have placed upon our market, submit them to the town Mayor for Permission to place goods on our market, or be charged with market manipulation.

If there is a need for the item you wish to trade and for it to be placed upon our market, I have every confidence in our Mayor to make that decision.

As to your poll, ((Outsiders may also participate, so using a poll does nothing to show true opinions unless voiced in this thread.))it does not include anything that makes sense to vote for or against so I can not in good conscience use your poll. Fair trade? Please think before you scalp a market.

There are many examples of members of our town giving outbursts because we are allowing outsiders to come in and take over our market so that they may make a profit while our own members of society suffer the consequence. We can not allow for this to continue.

My poll in my opinion can show one thig : The law is good and we must keep it or we must not keep it .

Can you please point me just one people who has an outburst for not selling their items ? And i promise will post items that i bought from them and in big numbers !

Now if somebody put those items at stupid price should it stay that way ?

Let me give you an exemple :

Widu at this moment :
18 bags of wheat at 20f and i have with me for sale 64 bags at 11f

Now explain to me how does it benefit your economy if buy wheat at 20f when a good price is 10-11f ?

Another one 1 Piece of cow carcass at 25f - I await to sel them at 18f and have 61 . From this cow c. your butchers will make cheap steaks .

I ask what will you think the price of a steak will be if they will only have available cow.c at 25f ?

Another one : cheapest pie is 33 and some of them are 35 - I sell all the pies at 25f .



Do you think this prices are honest to the low level player who buys them ?
Do you realy want to protect those prices ?
Why !?!

You have one exeple of the eggs - i want to answer that as well - That is the market who will grow and expand as there is a demand .

Today i came to widu and bought eggs from here because they where cheap i bought 108 eggs i think and this way i help raised the price of the eggs .

Do you want me to give more exemples of difrence of price bettwen your market and what is the true price ?

See that we are not talking about + or - 0.5f we are talking about a difrence of + 10 or more frenzicks per unit .

Why do you want to protect absurd prices and do not want to give a chance to a new creature that is born right now and does not have money and will buy only what is at this moment on the market ?

[Wyllow]

and I'm fairly certain that real traders won't place 100 eggs on the market, if the market is already full of eggs. Said trader will place them in a town that needs said eggs.

I wish this was the case. WHY? Because none of us would be here. There would be no law to discuss.

However, it is our trader here that brought this up that -HAS- been doing as I have said.

He also has removed his items from the market, but up until yesterday had 70+ chicken legs carcasses on our market, 60+ wheat.. and so on, I hope it is seen this pattern, as there have been many many occasions of his dumping on our market where are market is full.

Most if not all, prices are so low, our workers can not make a living. The limitations put forth are all for outsiders coming into our market and destroying our balance. This has been going on for months and we now need to put a stop to it.


I am quite certain that people will speak of their concerns here. I like that you cleared the market of all your goods before bringing this up here. That shows very little class, Ciphas. Because it gives the feel that you are being blindsided by something that wouldn't effect you had you contacted our mayor to place needed items upon our market rather than flood it with items we already have. Your Miller items you place up is another matter all together, which in their defense they have no way of competing with you on as you place the items up at so low of a price they have little to gain by even working their shops.


EDIT: This is what started the ball rolling on this. This is a look at our market on December 21, and it wasn't all, just the items that were gross manipulation.

100 Bottles of milk 6.75 Ciphas

6 Bottles of milk 7.50 chad7405

5 Bottles of milk 7.85 Derzis

13 Bottles of milk 7.95 balerion
(Via Steward)

8 Bottles of milk 8.00 Town Hall

28 Plucked chickens 11.00 Ciphas

7 Plucked chickens 13.00 Ceol

20 Plucked chickens 14.50 Bekah

1 Plucked chicken 15.00 Jason

100 Eggs 3.00 Ciphas

37 Eggs 3.20 Winnetou

19 Eggs 3.25 Texas_Knight

2 Eggs 3.50 Grazilda

239 Eggs 3.75 Winnetou

50 Hides 9.00 Ciphas

EDIT:
(Bah! Stated Legs, when it indeed was Plucked Chickens I meant.)

[Ciphas]

Your post is exactly what i want to point out :

I had 50 hides at 9f at one moment .

Now your market has 1 hide at 20f .

How is this situation better ?
-------------------------------------
At one moment i had 100 botles of milk at 6,5f .

Now there is NONE milk on the market NONE .

What does that mean ? In my opinion that 100 botles was not a big number and that i should have been 200 botles - Why because the market needs it .

Again is it better now that you do not have milk ?

--------------------------------------------------
Plucked chickens you have now 3 at 10f and the rest at 12f and growing .

How would Widu econmy benefit if the chiken legs will cost more because the plucked chikens will cost more ?

-----------------------------------------
Eggs - at one point I had 100 on the market at 3f now the price of the market is 2,75f

Because i had those eggs the price dropt and the market adapted was my price the lowest on the market ? No there are at least 2-4 oferts at lower prices - What is the next solution ? to expel any one with low prices from the market so only those with high price profit ?

----------------------------------------------
So from 4 exemple you gave 2 products are mo more on the market : milk and hides ( just 1 one the market ) .

[Wyllow]

Defend it all you like. What I listed above is a short list of the many items you have dumped on our market.

You have disrupt the balance that has been here, thus causing our council to take action. What you think you did to 'better things' is false. Now perhaps our workers can work their shops, work their fields so that they may earn a living.

There is a simple solution:
Ask permission to place your goods on our market and respect our economy.

If I have to be honest with you, you are the sole reason for this law to be discussed, for over a month, and then put in place.
Had you simply treated our market with just a shred of respect, we would not be here at this moment.

Look up other towns and their laws. They also have a no dumping law. It is time we too protect our citizens.